Lots of young guys need to learn how to play D. College defense is so different from the pros. Once he starts putting in the work in the context of a system, we'll see what he's made of.
i think i detailed in a post a few pages back (not a popular one) that i think his issues on offense and defense are actually similar, and have more to do with iq and instinct than skill and acquired knowledge. i'll be super happy to be wrong, and fully admit that's possible.
yeah, just like in the JC thread, I think its just too early to have any major concerns about an area of his game. I like to think that after 3-5 years of playing in the NBA you can start to see patterns for how a player will be for the rest of their career for the most part. Give Randle more time.
Defense has been an issue with all of our young players (well, not only them but that only proves my point below). When I watch them, I don't see any reason for them to not be able to be at least decent defenders. They are bad because they don't care. And the reason for that IMHO is the losing mentality that has been created very consequently for the past couple of years. This is one (not the main BTW) of the reasons why I will never, ever root for tanking. It may allow you to draft good players, but if you maintain the tank for too long (which seems to become a kind of a custom for teams in trouble), it may affect the talents you draft.
This 100%. When I see Russ I see potential superstar written all over him. He just has "it". Randle, I see the potential but mostly likely I see energy guy off the bench. I just don't see him panning out. Of course, this is very early so things can change drastically.\ When I see JC, I see a very solid starting guard. Borderline all-star upside.
I guess I'm the last one who thinks Randle will be a stud in this league? That's alright. When you guys come around to my side of the bandwagon I'll have a beer waiting for ya.
I'm already in that bandwagon with you realdeal! I love this kid. I think he's got a kind of physical dominance you don't see very often. He's quicker and stronger than a lot of PF's in the league and he's hungry to score and to board. I think he's a smart kid as well. What he doesn't have is any kind of polish or patented go to move right now besides the quick first step drive to the left and the spin move. As we've been saying all year he still needs to perfect an outside jumper and he needs to work on that right hand finish. But he's doing both of those things and they are both a lot better than at the start of the year. Besides those things he needs to work on his D as we've been saying. But I do think he'll be a force in the future. He's more than a handful right now or are some of you guys so jaded that basically averaging a double double in your first year of play in the NBA is just a ho hum thing to see? Remember that he's a PF and not a SF. The position has been dominated mostly by hustle guys who can board and I think Randle fits that bill. If he can improve that D a great deal, I think we've got a real keeper.
Yeah I think it's weird that there's a faction of the fanbase that's ready to write him off but is willing to embrace Jordan Clarkson. I find both of them to be in just about the same level of overall effectiveness and I see a higher ceiling in Julius than Jordan. I agree with all the criticisms about his scoring, his defense, and his general skill level but I believe he can improve on all those things.
True, Randle's potential ceiling is higher than JC's but key word being potential. His floor is also much much lower than JC's. I just see the chances of him being a stud or the chances of him being a energy guy off the bench in favor of the later.
Based on what? The kid is lights better than he was at the start of the season. I don't see why he can't continue to progress. At his floor he's already a double double guy in this league. How many rookies have done that?
A 20 year old double double machine? Even if he never develops, a lot of worse picks have been made in the top 10. And considering his development from the start of the season until now, I wouldn't worry. Personally, as much as I like Simmons, nothing about his game has proven to me that he's more of a sure thing than Julius.
I think Randle can be a career starter easily, and if he works hard I think he can be great or even elite at his position in a few years. Maybe that's having my Laker glasses on, but that's what I see. He's got the tools to be better than most at his position, for me it's about taking what he's being taught and putting it into practice. He's got Worthy teaching him, he's got Metta, and he probably has some other great big men if he wants them. He needs to work on those basics, fundamentals, because the raw talent is there. Screens, defense, knowing when he has an advantage off the dribble and when he doesn't, really getting that jumper working, and a post game. That sounds like a lot, but I don't think with his talent it will take a lot to get there except maybe the jumper. I think fundamental post moves can be taught quickly if he works hard and listens to what he's being shown. He's already shown flashes of this. He tries to dribble too much at the top of the key, and this can also be helped with better coaching a real system. His defense, I also need to see under a better coach and system, and physically again he has the tools. He's already got the motor for boards, he's got an NBA body, and he will get stronger, with a fundamental game he will be a handful down low. Right now he's playing on a lot of pure talent. Whether or not that's him not being taught better, or not absorbing and putting it into practice I don't know, time will tell. But I still think he should and would go top 4 if the 2014 draft was done over again, I think we got a steal at 7, and already putting up all these double doubles in his real rookie year does matter. He gets more time from me to say he's either a bench guy, solid starter, or stud, but I think all 3 are possible, and that's at least encouraging. We've already seen improvements in his game, he HAS slowed down the OC drives for charges, he is working hard as hell on the boards and getting fouled a lot and put back scores, cutting and dunking a lot, progress is being made. Potential to be one of the best starting PF's in the league are there IMO, it's just on how hard he works and what works ON from now on that will determine this. I'm high on him though, he should not have been there at 7 in the draft, we could have ended up with Elfrid Payton, Marcus Smart, or Noah Vonleh or something, we got a guy with much more potential.
I think whether randle was a draft mistake (certainly not) is a different question than whether he's likely to be a star. I think it's already obvious that the 2014 draft was overhyped. wiggins is the only guy that looks like surefire star to me. short of stardom, what I want from a higher lotto pick is at least a starter for many years. that's certainly in randle's sights, but it will require improvements/adjustments. people laughed at Orlando for taking Gordon 4th, but I didn't. mostly because I thought he showed high hoop iq to go with nba size and athleticism. you can gamble on that. that said, I probably would have taken randle over Gordon because in theory, his ceiling is still higher--mostly due to his unusual combination of strength, quickness, and ballhandling ability. anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what randle comes back with next year, and how he plays under a competent coach.
I don't mind you guys doubting his ability at all. We just disagree on him. Clearly you guys have strong doubts he'll ever reach his ceiling, but I don't. I think he's taken great strides offensively this season and his effectiveness on the boards has never wavered. I'll wait until next season to see whether or not he's plateaued like I think Jordan has. Remember this is for all intents and purposes his rookie season. Remember when all he did offensively was drive and turn the ball over? He's not doing that anymore and hasn't for about 10-12 games now. Sure he's got a lot more to grow, but he's doing it.
Nice aggressive offensive game last night (17 points 50% shooting). Didn't play enough minutes (only 25) to nail the double double, but the aggression was nice. Didn't love his two turnovers in the first quarter with the lazy passes but he cleaned it up pretty quickly. The three ball was a clunker, but he did have a great drive and finish with his right. He's been doing that more consistently lately. Usually makes one a game, which doesn't sound like much, but it's a big improvement over earlier this season. He's obviously working on it.
Agreed. Randolph doesn't have a traditional looking shot and it's slow as all heck. It doesn't matter though because he can create space when he needs to. If Julius could do that on a regular basis, his offensive game would be nearly unguardable. That being said: I'm more worried about him being an effective defender like Zach.
Will Randle be an all star or just a solid starter or even worse than that we probably won't know until 2-3 years out. This is technically still his rookie season playing for a coach that has no offensive or defensive schemes, a coach that lacks basic communication skills with his players. Right now my eye test says he's going to be a solid starter. His offense needs refining, his rebounding has been really impressive and his defense has been sad. He does have the potential to be an allstar though I think. He needs to develop a jumper and that will open up the rest of his offensive games, maybe more post up looks and develop counters to counters for bigger opponents. We've seen him dominate a lot of players his size or a bit smaller but struggle against the bigger/longer guys. He needs to put in a lot of work this off season and I hope our next coach does a better job of teaching defense. I'm not ready to quit on him being a big part of our future just yet, these guys still have room to grow. Lets come back to this discussion in a couple years when we actually look like we are playing basketball out there.
