I hate Lebron as much as anyone, but I agree with abeer -- he's #1 at SF. He passed Bird in points a couple seasons ago. 1 more MVP, 1 less ring, more to be written on the resume.
I mean there's no denying his skill and physical gifts. He'd be great in any era, just not #1 IMO. He has outstanding numbers, but that's in this era. My point is not really that his talents wouldn't translate, but that his mentality would be a huge handicap in the "tougher" eras. I mean this is just insulting to the game. It's chickens***. I understand he's rewarded for that crap in today's game, so he might as well take advantage. And if he were playing in the 80s and 90s he wouldn't be rewarded so he wouldn't play like this. I get that. What I am assuming is that for him to resort to that crap today, considering all his gifts, he's mentally weak. It's just disgraceful for someone of his talents to resort to that; no pride...soft. So imagine someone who reacted to that Chandler foul, playing in this era: If laimbeer did that to lebron, would he dust himself off and go right back at him or would he have been intimidated? i don't think he has the "grit".
That video just pisses me off. For someone with his talents and physical capabilities, he resorts to crap like that. Annoys the hell out of me. I get the "trying to sell a call" argument but to act like a fish out of water or you just got shot is embarrassing. The refs calling these plays are to blame tbh.
Those Laimbeer clips are ridiculously awesome. I would never want to see someone punch a guy in the face, but those hard fouls - that's how you play basketball. Bird takes a couple of shots from Laimbeer, and then he demands the ball vs. him, and proceeds to destroy the Pistons (31 points in the half). I don't condone the former, but to think of the mindset difference between a player who gets brutalized and turns it up vs. a player who falls apart - we've seen that difference with LeBron. He's more of the latter.
Let me clarify: the Parish on Laimbeer: dirty, unacceptable basketball. Laimbeer vs. Bird: good basketball.
Wow Parish really lost his s*** in that one. Punching a dude 3-4 times from behind? Not cool. Even though Lambier totally deserved it... He was as dirty as they come. And yes Lebron would have a very hard time dealing with that type of basketball.
No WAY Lebronze is number one SF. I take Bird over him every day of the week. Bird was a killer. Lebronze, not so much. Plus guys on steroids get knocked down in the rankings for me. Same for D. Wade.
No need to even debate about eras when it comes to Lebron guys ... Wouldn't have had the same career in the West PS : We eliminated 10 50 wins teams just between 08 and 2010
I'm feeling dirty defending LJ, but it's not his fault there were next to no good teams in the east during his entire career. This list should include also the number of 50-win teams the particular players' teams were eliminated by... I'm also curious as to the average numer of wins of teams defeated/lost to in the PO by all those guys.
He's 2-4 in the Finals against teams which spent more energy to get there . Even if you don't count his 2 losses with a below average/average supporting cast with the Cavs , he's still 2-2 with his super team including the biggest Finals choke by a superstar in 2011. Can't compete with the MJ , Magic and KAJ of this sport .
^Agree completely, but still, thise stats don't show the full picture. Maybe, just maybe, the additional data I mentioned would make Bron look even worse .
LeBron beat 7 50+ wins teams and lost to 7 50+ win teams. LeBron has beaten a team with a better record four times (Pistons, Bulls, Thunder, and Pacers). He has also lost to a team with a worse record three times (Magic, C Bags, and Mavericks). Kobe has beaten a team with a better record five times (Spurs twice, Kings, Wolves twice) and lost to a team with a worse record once (Pistons). If we go by seeding rather than record, then I think Kobe has lost twice to a lower seed (Pistons / Mavericks) but the Mavs had the same record as us.
you know who couldn't have played in a previous era? harden. even curry would have had more trouble when handchecking was allowed (try jacking those crazy threes whilst dragging derek harper's a** all over the floor). lebron could have adjusted, imo. i will agree that his finals runs have to be mitigated a bit by the watered down competition in his conference, though.
Updated with top 10 Cs. Their ranking: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Wilt Chamberlain Bill Russell Shaquille O'Neal Hakeem Olajuwon Moses Malone David Robinson Patrick Ewing George Mikan Bill Walton Every position has at least one active top 10 player at the position except this one. Lol. Meanwhile, there are still 4 currently active power forwards, which makes me think that actually, the PF position was extremely stacked this past generation. Where would you guys put Webber?
Webber probably doesn't make my Top 10, but he was a heck of a player. Mikan making the list is... I don't know. I don't want to take away from the guy, but he played a thousand years ago. I think he'd just be a decent Center by today's standards, even undersized a bit.
...doesn't surprise me that the C position's Top 3 is the game's Holy Trinity of Big Men. Had Walton overcame his injuries, he would have been higher on the list.
Webber is a tough one. A "B+ player." Is that good enough for the Hall of Fame? I don't know. I won't be mad either way. Think he had 4 all star games. Choked in the clutch. Never a serious MVP candidate. Positives are, those Kings were fun to watch and he had some great hands. Maybe the best ever at PF. Solid all-round game.
