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Jeremy Lin Discussion 2014-2015

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by ZenMaster, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

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    I'm up for this actually. I don't know if it's just me but Hill just doesn't look like the old player he used to be. That plug of energy on both ends of the floor.
     
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  2. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Hill had 7/10 in only 23 minutes last night. He looked fine besides some easy misses around the rim.

    @lakerjones I'd rather we depend on Kobe in the starting lineup. Having Davis/Lin out there will take pressure off of him, but also will take the ball out of his hands and limit his effectiveness. If we have Lin/Davis off the bench and have Kobe in the starting lineup we'll have offense in both spots.

    Really the problem is... our team stinks. So it doesn't really matter. If we start Lin/Davis then we'll have a horrible bench and they'll lose any lead Lin/Kobe/Davis might be able to get. If we don't start them, then you're right we're probably down by a few going in the 2nd quarter, but at least we've got a shot at evening it out. It really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things I suppose. With guys missing so much time, we're not going to win many games.
     
  3. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Our team does stink, but what about this in spurts, having Lin, Clarkson, and Kobe out there for stretches. I'm not advocating a lot of time, but Kobe could go back to playing some SF in the triple threat spot operating out of the post where he's best utilized, and you could potentially have Lin and Clarkson spacing the floor. Maybe when Kelly comes back trying him at the 4 and Davis and or Hill. Defense might not be so good, but at least on offense, you'll have multiple ball handlers, guys that can attack of the dribble, Kobe playing out of the post, etc...just a a thought.
     
  4. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm willing to try it. We need all the help we can get right now.
     
  5. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    Ultimately, sad but true realdeal. Lin/Davis with the starters gives us our best lineup but as you said, it's a "rob Peter to pay Paul" situation. You take away any fire power you had for the bench until the return of Swaggy P or at the very least Kelley.

    The problem I see though is that Price isn't good enough to start on the offensive end, and Lin is but has his best chemistry with Davis. I'd still rather go the opposite way and just bring in Davis to start with Lin at least for now. But you are right, I'm not sure it is going to matter much in the end what we do until we either get some of our guys back like Swaggy and Kelley or bolster this roster through the injury exception(s). We need some help. Until we get it we are going to lose most of our games.
     
  6. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    Although Price might not be good enough offensively, hopefully he can just focus on the defensive end and take what he gets in the offense. The offense should be going through Kobe/Boozer anyway, with sprinkles of Hill for the boards.

    Ultimately, the Nick Young injury is what's hurting this team most. That way, Lin can start without any implications from the bench in terms of scoring and creating.
     
  7. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah I've come around on it, LJ. Do whatever it takes to win games. If Lin/Davis/Kobe give us our best shot, then screw it let's do that. Just give us the best shot to win and you may be right. Lin/Davis starting may just be our best chance.

    Last night was a sobering game, even without Randle. Without Randle now it's just... depressing.
     
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  8. Gangsterbomb

    Gangsterbomb - Rookie -

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    Lin would do well leading a 2nd Unit that contained Ed Davis, but then the 1st team's entire play-making would revolve around Kobe drives and isos, which is just a bad idea. (I mean... we saw what this looked like the first half of the Rockets game when Lin became tentative and decided not to drive anymore...)

    Now if the Lakers actually had another creator/shooter at PG to pair with Kobe (Steve Nash...) Lin could run with the 2nd unit, knowing that the 1st unit had plenty of direction outside of Kobe, but the only other option to pair with Kobe at PG is Price, who provides very little on offense, which means Kobe will be doubled all the time with a Price/Kobe backcourt (rendering Kobe's game very inefficient.) We also saw this yesterday night, when Kobe shot long-2 after long-2. The offense simply couldn't get a better shot than that...

    With that said, there's just not enough depth with playmaking on this team overall, and one of Lin/Kobe need to be on the floor the entire game, as they are THE ONLY players who could be consistent play-makers on this team.

    The issue with this is that having Kobe be the primary playmaker for 9 minutes at a time while Lin plays with the bench is also a bad idea, because asking Kobe to facilitate AND score is just too much to ask out of the Mamba. Therefore, Lin/Kobe's minutes need to be staggered. Lin needs to play a good amount with Kobe, AND his minutes need to be split so he also plays with a bench unit. There's a balancing game that needs to occur here. ALSO ED DAVIS NEEDS TO PLAY MORE THAN HILL.

    **********************************************************************


    Imo, the rotations should work if they are something like this:

    1. Lin + Kobe + Wes + Boozer + Davis need to start and play around 6 minutes together.

    Lin's strongest play-making skill is driving to the cup, collapsing the defense and then finding the open man/shooting the layup. This strength, however, can be negated by great rim protectors (Aka Dwight Howard, etc...), so we need to counter teams who have great rim protectors by playing Lin with the following:

    - 1 BIG that can space the floor (Boozer). This draws out one rim protector onto the perimeter, clearing up the driving lane for a two-man PNR game.
    - 1 BIG that can set good screens and finish around the rim (Eddddddd). This BIG acts as a release valve for Lin when the opposing rim protector rotates to challenge Lin's drives.

    Hill just isn't a good enough PnR screener/roller or finisher to fill that 2nd Big position imo. While it is painfully obvious that the Lin/Davis pairing is the most dynamic connection so far on the team. Not to mention that the Boozer/Hill defensive dynamic is horrible.

    In this lineup, Wes can just camp out in the corner 3 farthest away from the action... where he belongs...

    Boozer can hang out on the perimeter on the side Wes is on, waiting for a kick out J.

    Kobe should hang out on the opposite side where Boozer/Wes are, so that if the Lin drive fails, Lin can pass out to Wes/Boozer, who will then swing the ball around to Kobe with probably 10 seconds left on the clock, where he can do what he does best, which is Iso/playmake out of nothing (pls no kirby isos with like 18 seconds left on the clock...). Also, since Boozer/Wes are on the opposite end of the Kobe action, Kobe can't be doubled without a defender traveling from the other side of the court (which would leave someone WIDE OPEN).

    2. Price + Kobe + Wes + Boozer + Hill play 3 minutes together.

    Enter the complete Kobe show. If Kobe shoots poorly in these 3 minutes, there is pain. If Kobe shoots well, there is much rejoicing. 3 minutes of asking Bryant to take over like this isn't overkill imo. 9 minutes of it is (which is what happened in the first half of the 1st game...).

    3. Lin + Clarkson + Henry + Kelly + Davis play 6 minutes together.

    2nd Unit reserves come in to run a Lin + Davis PNR offensive set to death. Kelly takes over the spacing roles Boozer had. Clarkson and Henry both spot up in the opposing 3-ball corners, driving the ball if they're closed out on.

    4. Price + Kobe + Wes + Boozer + Hill play 3 minutes together.

    Kobe show part Deux. Price + Hill spell Lin + Davis again temporarily, while Wes + Boozer also return to give Kobe spacing for Isos.

    5. Lin + Kobe + Wes + Boozer + Davis play final 6 minutes of the half/close out the game.

    The Lakers end the game with the same lineup they started with, which contains a viable driving threat (Lin), a Pick N Pop counter to the drive (Boozer), a Pick N Roll counter to the drive (Davis), a corner 3-ball shooter (Wes), and le Mamba throwing up killer iso-fades at the end of shotclocks (Kobe).

    Also, having the best rim protector on the team (Davis), is a must for the defense.
     
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  9. D-Fish Man

    D-Fish Man - Lakers 6th Man -

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    This. Look, when you're San Antonio (or the 2008-2011 Lakers) and you have tons of quality players, you can start messing/experimenting with the line-ups and having one of your top five player coming off the bench (ala Manu or Odom). Barring one of these aforementioned embarrassments of riches, you should really just have the best guy at every position start and call it a day.
     
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  10. RasAlgethi

    RasAlgethi Moderator Staff Member

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    I think some are being too harsh on Lin. He's literally the only other person other than Kobe that generated any kind of offense in the game. Yeah he had some jitters, but he looked solid in the 2nd half.
     
  11. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    Great, well reasoned post Gangsterbomb, and I absolutely agree with everything you have said here and I love these substitutions. Lin is young and can handle those longer minutes (36). He and Price should not be splitting minutes equally, we need Lin in for the majority. I like where you have it exactly and the precise lineups are right on point.

    Another thing that no one has talked about is that Kobe developed some good chemistry with Davis this pre-season. I loved seeing that. So it isn't just Lin and Davis. Kobe works well with him too. He needs to start now. Others pushed that point and I was opposed before, but now I see it needs to happen.

    Things may change when Young returns but for the next month or so without him I would love to see it break down like this. One thing though is we still don't even have Kelley back yet. Any timetable on his return?
     
  12. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Lin's post-game interview.
     
  13. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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  14. jbiggs

    jbiggs - Rookie -

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    i drafted lin on my fantasy team with high hopes...i still think he can get it together. only 2 games in...
     
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  15. RasAlgethi

    RasAlgethi Moderator Staff Member

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    Not sure what the point of this gif was. By the time Lin was open there was less than 4 seconds left on the shot clock, Kobe was just trying to create space to get a shot off.
     
  16. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    The point? That's a microcosm of what we might be witnessing the test of the year. It's not a bash Kobe or Lin thing; it's a 36 year old man trying to create offense against multiple defenders. It's not a remedy for good basketball.

    I'd like Lin to be more assertive offensively so we don't have to end up with those type of shots. Kobe us too work to hard to get points.
     
  17. SamsonMiodek

    SamsonMiodek - Lakers 6th Man -

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    He's saying the right things in the interview, but damn, he looks like depression personified
     
  18. RasAlgethi

    RasAlgethi Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah I fully agree with that. I dont really get what Byron has been working on in practice. Supposedly he's spent most of it on defense, yet our defense is abysmal. We have what seems like no offensive game plan other than let Kobe do his thing.
     
  19. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    watching lin the first two games (and the preseason, really) and then watching Isaiah Thomas last night reiterated my opinion from the time of the lin trade: I'd rather have Thomas.
     
  20. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers All Star -

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    which was enough time to make the obvious pass and shoot the open J ...
     

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