Random Other NBA Teams Discussion

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by LTLakerFan, Sep 4, 2016.

  1. Bryant

    Bryant - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Haliburton seemed to be very passive last night, getting Bill Simmons to call him "embarrassing".

    It is his first time in this moment, and seems to hesitate in front of adversity. Guess that's where the Bucks whole "front runner" thing came out. He needs to be aggressive and be the man for the Pacers.
     
  2. pika1708

    pika1708 - Lakers Starter -

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    Yeah he's passive sometimes. His numbers came down when they traded for Siakam. About the same time he got injured, which he played through because of a +65 games (All-nba?) in his max

    Keen to see how he shows out next year
     
  3. Zoyd Wheeler

    Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Luka stepped up in a major way to lead DAL to Game 5 win in OKC. He may be hurt, but triple-dub: 31/10/11. And "Live By the 3/Die By the 3" spoke out with OKC: 10 for 40: 25%. Also: hey, DAL played some good D. Their overall game went up with the Gafford/Lively lobs. They're (probably) headed to the WCF due in large part to their version of the Lob. When DAL acquired Gafford from the Wiz (Feb 8th 2024), the lob situation really took off. Imagine getting up that high over the outstretched hands of 7' competitors, and slamming it straight down. That athleticism. Gafford 4 for 4 tonight; Lively 3 for 4: probably 6 of those 7 makes were lob-dunks. If it were easy, every team would do it at this level, but they don't: must not be "easy." (Relative to other high-percentage plays.)

    DAL has to win Game 6 at home or else I think they get sunk in Game 7. Ya gotta be impressed with how good OKC is at such a very young average age. They could be a PITA (pain in the a**) for years to come in the West.

    Neither DAL nor OKC presents much of a problem for DEN or MIN, in my estimation.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2024
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  4. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    if luka were at full strength, i think dallas could play with denver or minny. their deadline moves really changed the complexion of the team. they're much better defensively and thus a contending-level team, imo.
     
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  5. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    Was SGA still getting the D-Whistle treatment?
     
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  6. Zoyd Wheeler

    Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Not really. 4 for 6 from the line. Not exactly (or is it "zackly"?) home cookin.'

    But that's just one game; other refs may still be drawn into those calls. I expect it to go on.

    And I think players who get those calls are not part of a conspiracy; they developed a set of moves that convince refs they got fouled. It's up to the refs to figure it out, and then for the player to adjust. It's "smart" by Beardie (picking the most outrageous case here) to have developed that game that effing everyone hated except Beardie's fans. Then: slowly, the refs got wise and its largely gone away.

    BTW: I think AR - who studied Beardie's moves in the paint - may have started to see his calls lessen this year in the playoffs, and it put a slight crink in his game there at the end. Anyone else see that?
     
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  7. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i haven't seen much of the series since the beginning. he got some ticky tack calls on what were really offensive fouls (imo) to get them the lead that they never really gave up in that one. since then, his FTA count hasn't been high, but i'm reading that he's basically using the shove-off-to-get-space on every midranger, and the refs are letting it go. because the mavs don't really have anyone who's both strong AND can keep SGA in front of them, that's going to give him a huge advantage if he's allowed to push off.

    the "conspiracy" angle comes in for me when other players aren't getting the same calls on the same moves. the refs definitely have different ideas about which players can and can't initiate contact on drives, for example. it's clear as day to me.


    the point is that it was always illegal. why did he get to do it for five years (when others didn't)? i've always harped that it's up to the league to clean it up, and the good players will simply adjust. but yes, it's on the officials to call the game according to one set of rules for everyone.

    yeah, when guys can put hands on austin, he has more trouble getting to his spots in the paint. he finishes pretty well through contact, though.

    but in general, yes, most players struggle when the officials start letting guys play in the playoffs. one exception, interestingly, has been brunson. but i'd argue that for a tiny guy he plays major bully ball out there, just popping into the chest of the defender several times a possession. the refs don't call it either way, so he gets an advantage.
     
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  8. Zoyd Wheeler

    Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Good point on Brunson: small guy doin' bully stuff. It's a huge part of his game.

    The semantics of "conspiracy": no doubt refs eventually start talking to each other about their perceptions regarding players X,Z,K and Q, for example. Players will evolve their game to see how much they can get away with. I highly suspect ('cuz I'm high and always a suspect?) refs develop ideas about when "incidental contact" is a foul or not. Then, they see they've allowed, say, SGA, to get away with things they originally thought were incidental, but gradually enough of them talk to each other around "are we letting SGA get away with a foul there?" (for example), and then it builds up to an "issue" they have to deal with.

    This take is from someone (me) who is assuming the games are not fixed. As I've said on other threads in the past: if I saw enough to convince me the NBA was a sham, I'd be outta here. I want the NBA in my life; I don't need it. So I'm perceiving and extrapolating based on the game being on the up-and-up and that refs want to get it right, that it's really hard sometimes, and that - as with the case of Beardie's obnoxious set of moves that for the most part got taken away from him - things change. But s l o w l y.

    I could be a naive dip**** though. I don't want to be. Don't think I am. Don't think there's a conspiracy. I do look forward to SGA getting the whistle on the push-off, but yea: he seems to be getting away with a lot. So does Jalen B. I remember D-Wade getting everything called in his favor, and I still thought it was a consensus ref perception that he legit got fouled. Same with a lot of MJ's and Kobe's overall games. There might be something tacit and - call it a "conspiracy" it you want - about the superstars getting calls that go their way more often. But it's complicated. I mean: no one's ever been a bigger "star" than Lebron, and I swear he gets hacked and fouled quite often and it isn't called. Esp when he drives to the rack. Does he do himself a disservice by vehemently complaining to the refs even when he appears to have NOT been fouled? Yea, I think he's hurt his rep there.

    Any one of us could on and on here with Player so-and-so and their game and how they don't get calls/do get calls/are dirty players, etc.
     
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  9. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    yeah, that's why i put conspiracy in parentheses. i don't believe that people are in smoky rooms doing this, but i do believe that there's a shared bias that is (perhaps intentionally) overlooked. it has basically the same effect. the 2006 finals were a conspiracy, though. they definitely saw what was happening and pushed the "more" button in the league office.

    lebron's always been like shaq to me: his strength and speed make him very difficult to officiate. he hunts contact, but he also gets more than they allow for others. when he was young, it was probably a net positive for him, but now that he's old and ground-bound, those fouls prevent him from finishing and even create turnovers.

    anyway, right now i'd say SGA and embiid are the two guys i think of when it comes to getting the favorable whistle at all times in ways that even other stars don't. jokic gets away with a lot but also gets hit a lot, so i think he's kind of a lebron case. giannis is like that, too. but SGA and embiid if officiated like other players would be a rung below where they are in esteem, imo. just like harden and wade before them.
     
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  10. Zoyd Wheeler

    Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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    The 2006 D-Wade thing is taken as "fact" by a lot of people. And it's quite a charge. I'm not sayin' you're wrong or anything; not tryna imply anything. Can you give me some evidence I may have missed? (Besides, "Dude: just go back and watch that jit!") I already watched it and thought he was getting calls at a level I'd never seen before. Still: the claim that there was a conscious "fix" for D-Wade requires something more for me, and I couldda easily missed it. I don't read everything. Any smoking gun on this one? Or even a gun that's hot to the touch when you find it in the 2nd drawer down, ya know the one with the whiskey bottle wrapped up in a brown paper bag? That gun?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2024
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  11. Zoyd Wheeler

    Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Antman's 7 1/2 min postgame interview after MIN forced Game 7 in DEN by beating them by 45. Man, I don't know who will win Game 7, but I'm lookin forward to it. Historically, a slaughter leads to the slaughtered team bouncing back for a win. I don't know.

    Ant gets a Q about KAT guarding Joker and he says the main thing was KAT's azz staying out of foul trouble. "I cussed him out. I cussed him out every chance I get it, bro, 'Stop effing foulin'." Classic. Look forward to another 15 years of watching this kid.

     
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  12. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    that it was a conspiracy? i mean, the mavs handled the heat in the first two games of the series pretty easily, and then all of a sudden wade is just going to the FT line every trip down, while zo is literally clotheslining mavs players without so much as a peep from the refs. it was absolute garbage. i think stern didn't want cuban to get a ring and branding wade as the heir to mj at the same time made business sense. i can't explain it other than people made some very intentional choices about who was going to win and how. it was ridiculous; i couldn't believe what i was watching.

    man, if we could have gotten conley instead of dlo, we might have another ring and be competing for a third right now. it's wild. again, i wanted conley, but no way did i think he'd be upright at this point. when he missed the last one, i was like...yeah, that's why you don't make that gamble. but he came back and they won big.
     
  13. Zoyd Wheeler

    Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Conley's 36, had a great career, this year's Teammate of the Year (however they decide that), is always solid, smart, executes, doesn't really run hot/cold, hasn't been fortunate enough to win a ring. Yet.

    Remember Greg Oden and Conley on Ohio State? Man: "Greg Oden": that seems like 20 years ago to me. And here's Conley, still pretty clutch in a big game. "Only" 3 years younger than Lebron James.

    Over his career I've noted he has this weird shot thing every now and then: he maybe thinks he's getting fouled or the time's running out: he shoots a kind of weak-looking 16 footer: it's high arc, looks off but hits the rim, bounces up and toward the cylinder, drops down, bounces a little or rolls on the rim, falls in. You usually see 6'9"-7' guys with that kinda action. Conley is 6'0".

    "Soft touch!"
    "Gets the bounce and the and-one!"
    "Ohhhh! How did that go in?!"

    It would be sweet to see him get a chip this year. Do I think he will? I doubt it. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
     
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  14. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    screw SGA. LOL
     
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  15. Zoyd Wheeler

    Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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    PJ Washington hits 2 of 3 FTs with 2 secs left to close out OKC: in my life as an NBA fan I've often thought about that kind of pressure. "Zen mind" is easy to say. I don't know how I'd act. Often we see a very good FTer barely hit the front of the rim on one of those.

    That was a foul, but it's a rough way to go out. DAL went up 5 at 1:11; SGA calmly hits a step-back, then 1 of 1 FT on the foul by PJ before the ball inbounded; then Chet slams a lob to put OKC up 116-115 w/20 secs left. Wow: not a boring game.

    OKC up 17 with 9 mins left in the 3rd.

    Does anyone have DAL taking out DEN or MIN? I don't see it.
     
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  16. pika1708

    pika1708 - Lakers Starter -

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    I think Denver isn't as sharp and deep as last year, they may stumble in the West. I like Dallas odds against them. If it's Minny not sure, Minny has surprised me.
    But this Dallas team is legit. 2 headed monster in Luka-Ky and then a bunch of guys who defend well plus 2 scoring punches on PJ and THJ, it's a well-rounded team, the type who gets to the finish line
     
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  17. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    2 conference finals in the last 3 years, nice. Role players play hard, Kyrie fits well, no way Luka wants out :(
    If either them or Minny make it to the Finals, im afraid Boston will take it :(
     
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  18. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i think the kleber injury hurt dallas more than folks think, as he's a big body who can help them play a different style.

    in the next round, they're going to have to play minutes with pj washington on gobert, towns, jokic, or gordon. he's giving up major size in three of those (and still some size vs. gordon).

    weirdly, of the three i think dallas may have the best shot against boston for the same reason dallas has given the clips problems: luka can't be guarded by their wing stoppers, so their general defensive philosophy has to be recalibrated.

    but yeah, dallas shouldn't be favored against minny or denver. could see them imposing their style and making it interesting, but those aren't great matchups for them.
     
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  19. JSM

    JSM - Lakers Legend -

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    Watched the second half of the Mavs-OKC G6 last night.

    Mavs additions came up HUGE for them. How did Nico finish 5th in GM of the year voting? I thought they had a great off season and that was before winning the trade deadline.

    Washington had his 9 points all in the final 6 min. Corner 3s in the biggest game of his life.

    Jones Jr is playing for pennies. Gave them 22 and some good defense.

    Lively is a beast. 12 & 15 with an elite motor and infectious energy. Still not 100% over him not slipping to us in the draft.

    Stein had this blurb about him in his newsletter today
    Not afraid of the moment. Not even a little.
     
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  20. JSM

    JSM - Lakers Legend -

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    John Wells needs to revisit his most famous show.

    Now is the time to give it a NBA edition.

    images (4).jpeg

    ER: Knicks edition



    Hardest working medical staff heading into this off-season.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2024

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