WMC 24-25: Dumb Finishing

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by puffyusaf#2, Aug 2, 2021.

  1. VladeD714

    VladeD714 - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2023
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    There should be plenty of criticism for Ham. Plenty. You always have a chance to win basketball games and you never know what might happen in the course of a basketball game.

    So, if you're within striking distance or if a game is tied @ 102 with about 3 minutes or so left specifically in the game, and anything can happen, then you don't leave Reddish in the game and your third best player on the bench, bro.

    Can't happen especially when Reddish is one of the worst offensive players on this roster. You can't defend Denver; your best shot is to outscore them. Russell gives you the best shot to do that.

    If you're going to lose this game, at least go down with your best lineup that got it in a position to give you a chance to win the game.
     
    lakerjones likes this.
  2. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    10,963
    Likes Received:
    30,440
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline

    I would have brought DLO back sooner.

    Even with that, we need more from our big two down the stretch (especially AD). That’s my main point in all of this.
     
    lakerjones and VladeD714 like this.
  3. VladeD714

    VladeD714 - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2023
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    How can you get more out of AD when they're playing 4 on 5 and they're not guarding Reddish?

    Does AD need to play better in the second half (Only 4 points)? Sure. But when you have one of your worst offensive players out there (who isn't impacting Murray negatively at all), and Denver isn't guarding him, AD is going to get doubled or loaded up on everytime.

    Now if you want to make the case he needs to show up in the third quarter when Denver came back and tied up the game, I'm with you. There needs to be a pushback, and that's when he should have taken the lead. Can't have an 8 point lead vanish in the third just like that.

    LBJ had 13 4th quarter points (I believe). He did his job...
     
    lakerjones, ElginTheGreat and abeer3 like this.
  4. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    10,963
    Likes Received:
    30,440
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    It’s a fair point and I would be right with you if AD had been doing more on offense the entire half and then fell off a cliff once Reddish came in.

    I don’t like benching DLO. He’s earned his spot in the line up down the stretch. You’ll get no argument from me on that.
     
    lakerjones likes this.
  5. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    10,963
    Likes Received:
    30,440
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    And to be clear, im not turning into bash AD and Bron guy here. It’s beyond just this game for me too. I want to see our big guns will us to victory over these guys and I think they can do it. Otherwise I wouldn’t be irritated and ranting about it. Lol
     
    lakerjones likes this.
  6. Pioneer10

    Pioneer10 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    13,739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    This is all correct but AD get out hustled down the court is a problem. Jokic beats him down when he goes for the glass and AD does not establish early position.
    This is a shame because with his passing improvement he has the tools now to punish late rotations
     
  7. FrontOfJersey22

    FrontOfJersey22 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2021
    Messages:
    5,323
    Likes Received:
    9,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    So easy to do when nearly every night, our team doesn’t place much emphasis on stopping anyone.
    Above all else, this is the reason why Hambone will be fired this summer.
     
    lakerjones likes this.
  8. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    10,735
    Likes Received:
    31,940
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    La La land
    Offline
    We are leaving three point shooters open by design. That's been our defensive philosophy all season and it's just ruinous. You can't do that and expect to succeed in the modern NBA. I don't understand helping or doubling in the post when you have AD down there. Makes zero sense to me.
     
    FrontOfJersey22 and JSM like this.
  9. VladeD714

    VladeD714 - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2023
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    Doesn't help when you're biggest FA signing has been injured since the beginning of the season.

    Would help immensely if you had a healthy Vincent and could play a Russell/Reaves alongside him without him being a complete liability offensively.

    Idk if he could guard Murray effectively, but we didn't even get the chance to see if it would work.
     
    ElginTheGreat and lakerjones like this.
  10. Bryant

    Bryant - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    Messages:
    1,809
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    No one is going to beat Denver if this is their 3rd or 4th best player. I guess MPJ got tired of being called "the worst contract in the league"

    :Laugh:
     
  11. FrontOfJersey22

    FrontOfJersey22 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2021
    Messages:
    5,323
    Likes Received:
    9,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Well, that’s one of the worst philosophies I’ve ever heard regarding defense- especially in this era.
     
    LTLakerFan, JSM and lakerjones like this.
  12. FrontOfJersey22

    FrontOfJersey22 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2021
    Messages:
    5,323
    Likes Received:
    9,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I get it, but we are talking about Gabe Vincent here- not Jayson Tatum.
    Would Gabe have helped us win a few more games this season? For sure. Would he have been the difference in us beating the Nuggets or being in the top four of the West?
    Nope.
    I don’t think Gabe’s talents have that large of an affect on a team, but I know that Vando’s do- I’ve seen it.
    Anyway, the Nuggets are much better than us because they have a good coach, and as stated already by others, Jokic and Murray have significantly outplayed LeBron and AD since the Bubble.
     
    Pioneer10 and lakerjones like this.
  13. Pioneer10

    Pioneer10 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    13,739
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    The data suggest that protecting the rim is still more important. Teams that sell out to protect the 3 are getting killed on defense.

    I wouldn't have thought it was the case but the data is supporting this
     
    Cookie, abeer3 and ElginTheGreat like this.
  14. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    10,735
    Likes Received:
    31,940
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    La La land
    Offline
    Not everyone has a defender like AD down low.
     
  15. VladeD714

    VladeD714 - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2023
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    1,307
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    A healthy Vando in the regular season makes us a top 4 team, but Denver still ignores him in the playoffs when they don't have to guard him and Murray still goes off...

    Never said Vincent was Tatum. Heck, I never even said we would have beat the Nuggets w/him. I would have just liked to see what Vincent looked like in matchup vs Denver.

    And I'll say this, if we miss the PO's, anybody could get moved, lol. I really want the summer to come and go get another star.

    Anyway, just a disappointing season. Maybe next year.
     
  16. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    11,783
    Likes Received:
    23,916
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Brow-beater
    Location:
    Las Islas Filipinas
    Offline
    With a competent coach we could have been a contender
    upload_2024-3-4_15-10-44.jpeg
     
  17. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    31,723
    Likes Received:
    77,087
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Your time is running out Ham
    Location:
    Laker Purgatory
    Offline
    I confess I don't have much interest in watching games right now

    Feels like another wasted season, and to have this type of record with this lineup is just a travashamockery.

    Changes need to happen this offseason, or I may not even bother watching anything next year. Lakers are playing with fire on losing fans IMHO.
     
  18. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    11,783
    Likes Received:
    23,916
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Brow-beater
    Location:
    Las Islas Filipinas
    Offline
    More effort is made by Kalye ball players
     
  19. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,342
    Likes Received:
    76,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    interesting figure, but as always, context is important. the assumption is that the teams on the extremely low end of 3pt rate are there on purpose. can we make that assumption? the pattern is primarily driven by three teams: indiana, chicago, and new orleans. is their strategy purposeful? are detroit and washington defending the three or just not defending anywhere at all (they're terrible)? there are actually several teams in lower left quadrant (lower three point rate, good defense), too.

    i'd need more information to be convinced that it's the result of a strategy, even if i believe the trend (again, not sure about that, either).
     
    Cookie and wallangong like this.
  20. wallangong

    wallangong - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,627
    Likes Received:
    4,914
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    this was my first thought. it's important to understand the types of 3s teams are attempting. Take Boston for example. Are they daring opponents to shoot the 3? Or are they playing swarming defense that leads to a high volume of 3s at the end of the shot clock?

    Den, Phi, Orl, Cle, and Min are below league averages in both. What's the explanation for this? To abeer's point, the whole premise is based on 3 teams. Are those teams bad on defense because they try to limit the 3? I don't need to look at any data to answer that: NO.
     

Share This Page