i think he'll be better in that he'll end up in a more egalitarian marital situation (because, i mean...), but it's highly unlikely he ends up as good as doug. he was underrated, imo. big two-way wing who could pretty much do it all--defend team or in isolation, handle, pass, ok finisher and open shooter...poor man's iguodala. don't think max has quite that ceiling, but he can do a lot of it. if he's a poor man's doug, that's a big hit.
I think you are way under selling Max. Doug was mentally weak and didn't trust his shot causing him to fade in big games. I don't see that happening with Max. During big moments Kings fans accused Doug of still playing for the Lakers...lol. He had a few good years in the middle of his career but basically was not much to worry about. He was a great defender and could nail free throws so he had value, but I think Max will ascend much quicker and stay there longer. I'm still not buying these ceilings you guys put out. As athletic as Max is, as hard as he works and as good as he already is how can anyone say with certainty that he can't become a really good player? I can understand saying you don't think a guy will reach a certain level but to say it isn't possible which is basically what putting a ceiling on them means doesn't make much sense to me. That was what many were saying about Austin only a short time ago and many ceilings have had to be rebuilt. Likely the case with Max as well.
I don’t think anyone can honestly place a ceiling on a player until that player has at least played a solid role for a team throughout an entire season. Well, they can, but I don’t.
lol, i'm one of max's biggest fans on the board, from the get-go (check the receipts). and i absolutely believe in ceilings, or at least soft ceilings. for example, i was never, under any circumstances outside of time travel, going to be an nba player. someone saying this when i was 18 wasn't hating or lacking in imagination. they were observing facts in context.
Good point about ceilings, but watching Max this last Summer League and reading Swider's description of Max's drive to improve has convinced me he has the potential to be better than Christie was.
Hopefully you have good carpentry skills...lol. Being a big Max fan from the get-go doesn't mean you are not under selling him now. To be honest I'm not a receipt checker. So, what are these soft ceilings?? They seem a little bit like not putting a true ceiling on someone or having an escape clause. This guy can never get any better than player x unless of course, he gets better than player x, but I'm calling it...lol. Kind of hard to go wrong there covering every base and angle. Did someone mention back sliders LT?
soft ceiling=range of functioning rather than some absolute point. the "hard ceiling" is kind of a strawman, as people can always improve at anything if you're willing to consider small enough increments. my exact quote was "it's highly unlikely he ends up better than doug christie". not sure what's wrong with that. in his prime, doug had a several-year period of averaging 15/4/4 while a ballhandling role on offense and guarding the other team's top offensive threat every night for 35mpg on a perennial contender. suggesting that it's unlikely for a player to reach that isn't hate. i hope he does it, and i could imagine it, but imagining it doesn't make it a sensible expectation. maybe i'm just sensitive to stuff like this on the forum because of the kuz situation. people putting unrealistic expectations on him made discussion of his play difficult over time.
All sounds good to me. I just see ceilings and expectations as two different things. I'm definitely over-sensitive to responses after spending time scouting players and putting out realistic but out of the box thinking only to be hit from ten angles with ceilings, pecking orders and young players can't contribute instead of well thought out responses...lol. None of which make sense to me from a basketball perspective. I've coached for decades, and not once did I not play someone that earned the spot because of ceilings, pecking orders or age. Especially pecking orders, right off the bat as soon as I hear that term, I know we are coming from two different places. All of that is to apologize if I came off as attacking you. I have tremendous respect for what you add to the forum and enjoy your posts.
Yeah Christie was a solid role player in his prime. His team's best wing defender and an offensive contributor. But three years from now when Max hits his earliest prime, I will be disappointed if he is only at 15ppg.
To put in other words if the Lakers signed prime Doug christie would people be stoked, I think so. His value was probably under-rated at that time as the league really emphasizes wings who can space and provide an offensive punch more now than when he was in the league
Wonder if anyone told Max yet about that long paved hill near UCLA that Kobe used to kill himself on during the summers. Maybe better they don't .... he'd burn that new muscle mass right off.
