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Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by LTLakerFan, Sep 4, 2016.

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Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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trodgers said: ↑

A c*** punch usually hurts for a few minutes. Tripping dudes can end seasons. I still think Allen is the biggest piece of s*** in the league.
Click to expand...

Yea. I've had my eye on Dillon Brooks as a dirty player for a couple seasons now, but it's gonna take a lot to overcome the a-holerry that is Grayson Allen's game.

Zoyd Wheeler, Feb 3, 2023

#5861

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Rivers vs. Bamba

This one is going to be expensive

Last edited: Feb 3, 2023

JSM, Feb 3, 2023

#5862

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JSM, Feb 3, 2023

#5863

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Zoyd Wheeler - Lakers 6th Man -

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Is it me, or is Austin Rivers widely disliked around the NBA...by other players? I've seen a few things in the past, but normally I don't pay that much attention to this crap.

Didn't someone try to get at him from the other locker room while he was with the Clips?

A while ago, the idiot announcer for the GSW, Bob Fitzgerald, implied that Rivers was a nepotism case, which...if there's any line of work in which nepotism ain't gonna apply, it's the NBA, right? But still, I thought he said it because, ya know, "everyone hates this guy."

Gawd. I'm gettin' old. I feel like I'm asking ya'll to help me get caught up with my soap operas. Just forget I even said anything.

Anyway, Rivers had "jagoff" written all over him, to me, from his rookie year on.

Zoyd Wheeler, Feb 4, 2023

#5864
KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers Legend -

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KareemtheGreat33, Feb 5, 2023

#5865

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The Rock, Feb 5, 2023

#5866

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The Rock said: ↑

Click to expand...

people get bored by greatness. though it's weird that jokic is going to get three straight mvps while probably never being the league's best player. the last guy to do similar was steve nash, who, like jokic, was...oh no...

abeer3, Feb 5, 2023

#5867

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I don't think much of Rivers, good or bad, but I respect everything he said in that interview.

I didn't know he lives in Orlando. I've been in the area since 2011 and didn't know.

trodgers, Feb 5, 2023

#5868

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The Rock - Lakers Starter -

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Jokic might win his 3rd straight MVP. Team is 1st in the West

The Rock, Feb 5, 2023

#5869

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wcsoldier81 - Lakers All Star -

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It's a regular season award nothing more

Steve nash 2
Shaq 1
Kobe 1

Kobe 5 titles and 7 Finals played
Shaq 4 titles and 6 Finals played
Nash never made it to the Finals

wcsoldier81, Feb 6, 2023

#5870

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He's killing it right now

JSM, Feb 7, 2023

#5871

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what in the world? what's the list of nba players who have scored 40+ in three straight games, ever? it has to be pretty short.

abeer3, Feb 8, 2023

#5872

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Is that tongue in cheek or you're genuinely in awe of 40+ three straight games by anyone? For some reason that doesn't seem all that rare to me, especially watching Kobe's runs and some of the runs just this year by players.

LTLakerFan, Feb 8, 2023

#5873
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Mavs up 41-23 on the Clippers after 1 quarter, Luka isn’t even playing, Kyrie had 8, Bullock has 15. Kawhi and George are playing tonight as well.

Weezy, Feb 8, 2023

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NBA refs are garbage

Weezy, Feb 8, 2023

#5875

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That’s hilarious

Weezy, Feb 9, 2023

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Luka and Booker have been my dream scenarios for the post-Lebron era.
Mavs just traded depth and defense for Kyrie and Suns traded depth and defense for a 34y old KD.

I can see both of them rethinking their careers in 2/3 years.
Getting them gives us another 5y window contending, possibly without 1y rentals like with LeBron but building a foundation around Reaves, Max and other future cost-controlled role players.

If we play our cards right, we can be back on top soon and for the long term

pika1708, Feb 9, 2023

#5877

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Biggest failure in NBA history?

KD ruined whatever remaining respect/ credibility he had with fans or the media in hopping to another front runner. There's never been a more talented coattail rider.

JSM, Feb 9, 2023

#5878

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ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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JSM said: ↑

Biggest failure in NBA history?

KD ruined whatever remaining respect/ credibility he had with fans or the media in hopping to another front runner. There's never been a more talented coattail rider.
Click to expand...

Has to be.

Most other failed super teams happened when some of the stars were past their prime. Those guys should have won at least one ring but never even made the Finals.

ElginTheGreat, Feb 9, 2023

#5879

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Windy and Shelburne wrote a really good article detailing how the KD trade went down. It's a long read.

A LITTLE AFTER after 12 a.m. ET Thursday, the Brooklyn Nets' front office decided to call it a night. They'd take a car back to a local hotel where they'd holed up as a group for trade deadline week to carry out what had turned into a sad mission: the final dismantling of the greatest superteam that never was.

The Nets had been waiting for the past couple of hours for their counterparts along with the Phoenix Suns, who 2,500 miles away were pacing around their darkened practice facility looking at spreadsheets and whiteboards, to decide whether they would meet the Nets' steep asking price for their superstar forward.

"Nobody wants to give up Kevin Durant," Nets general manager Sean Marks told ESPN. "There's so many things that make him special. They don't come around very often and our franchise is better off because we had him here. There's no question of that."

On Monday afternoon, Durant and his business partner Rich Kleiman had asked for a meeting. It was a somber one. Less than 24 hours earlier the Nets had traded Kyrie Irving to the Dallas Mavericks after a whirlwind three days of action. Now Durant was repeating the words he had said on the eve of free agency last June that had turned the NBA on its side for weeks.

Again, Durant told Marks he wanted to be traded. Only this time, Durant specifically asked to be traded to the Suns. The group then Facetimed Nets owner Joe Tsai, who was at his home in San Diego, with the decision.

It was not fiery. It was a request, not a demand like Irving had made of the Nets the previous Friday. More importantly, in stark contrast to Durant's public trade request last June and Irving's maneuver this was to stay a private appeal. Durant didn't want a bidding war and days of being the target of intense speculation and online obsession.

Keeping it quiet was not a simple ask.

Indeed, Durant knew the Suns wanted him; he'd grown close to franchise star Devin Booker when the two played together on Team USA at the Tokyo Olympics in 2021. The national team has been fertile ground for superteam incubation ever since LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh built their bonds on their own trip to Japan in 2006.

In Durant and Booker's case, it was a crash course. With heavy COVID-19 measures in place for three solitary weeks, the Team USA members were together non-stop. And the two basketball-obsessed stars were drawn to each other. Neither probably should've been there, Durant had just completed his first season after returning from a torn Achilles and easily could have chosen to rest. Booker had just suffered a devastating loss in the Finals where his Suns had blown a 2-0 series lead following a grueling season.

But both are deeply dedicated to the game and just wanted to win. Their experience together was so rewarding, they pondered doing it some day in the NBA.

Durant told the Nets he'd play out the rest of this 2022-23 season if they couldn't find a way to route him to be alongside Booker and future Hall of Famer Chris Paul in Phoenix. And he would find a way to get excited about winning with the players Brooklyn had acquired from Dallas in its trade for Irving the day before.

When Durant had asked for a trade last summer, it wasn't a goodbye but the start of an exploration that was eventually set aside. But after an emotionally-draining eight months since, what was left unsaid was clear this time.

Both sides knew this marriage was finally at the end. The only question was whether the divorce came now or after the season.

"At some point, there's just a fatigue," one source close to the process said. "There's just too much drama. Too much uncertainty."

That fatigue isn't why you agree to a deal in the end. It's how you accept it.

But the third wheel in this breakup, the Suns, were in a complicated place themselves. They were days away from changing ownership in the wake of a scandal that had banished previous owner Robert Sarver. The new face of the team, billionaire mortgage magnate Mat Ishbia, only met his front-office leaders in person the previous Saturday. He hadn't even closed on the deal to take over the team yet, which was scheduled for Tuesday.

How could the Suns possibly execute a trade, one that would perhaps be the biggest transaction in team history, under such circumstances?

Last summer the Suns were instantly identified as a possible fit in a Durant trade because they had everything Brooklyn would need: all of their future draft picks plus a group of multi-talented young wing players the Nets could use as the foundation of a rebuild.

Back then the Suns had been cautious, they recoiled at the price the Nets wanted and internally were concerned over the huge financial cost for bringing Durant in. Marks and Suns president James Jones had met in Las Vegas during the NBA's summer league; it was not a productive session, so the sides walked away.

But, Tsai knew Ishbia personally and they liked each other. When Ishbia was in the years-long process of looking to become an NBA team owner, he had attended several Nets games as a guest of Tsai's to see how Brooklyn did business. They had each other's phone number. Tsai had just cast the Nets franchise's vote in support of Ishbia's purchase.

That is where this Durant megadeal started: an owner-to-owner call on Monday afternoon as Tsai told his new colleague that his first ballot Hall of Fame superstar wanted to be in Phoenix.

When Marks followed up with Jones, though, the ask was just as sky high as it was last summer. It was take-a-deep breath high:

Four unprotected first-round picks. No negotiation.

An unprotected pick swap in 2028, likely after Durant is retired. No negotiation.

Mikal Bridges, the forward who hadn't missed a game in three seasons, is a lock for All-Defensive team, is having the best offensive season in his career and is deeply loved by everyone in the organization. No negotiation.

Cameron Johnson, the long defensive specialist who can defend multiple possessions and handle the ball. No negotiation.

James, of course, tried to negotiate. Would the Nets take another player besides Bridges because the Suns really, really did not want to trade him. As it turns out, that specific request last summer had essentially killed the deal at the meeting in Vegas.

No, Marks said, Bridges had to be in it.

What about one fewer first-rounder? What about some protection on the later picks? Hard no.

This was awkward because the Suns were in Brooklyn, playing at Barclays Center Tuesday night. James and team vice president Ryan Resch were in town as the talks remained quiet in the face of the raging rumor inferno of deadline week.

Tuesday passed -- the Suns won the game by four points and Bridges and Johnson were good, combining for 35 points unaware of what was happening -- with Durant sitting on the bench with a knee injury. He had not made a statement since the Irving trade and would stay to himself this night, too.

James and Resch took a commercial flight home to Phoenix from Newark, New Jersey, to be there for Ishbia's first day as owner. They stayed in touch with Ishbia but there was no traction on a deal. But the price. How could they pay the price?

The Nets knew the Suns were working through other trade scenarios. It was unclear if they had decided to go in another direction. Marks and the Nets had been on the other side of blockbuster trades each of the past three years as they built the superteam they were now disassembling.

They knew what it felt like to get all the way to "yes" on a deal like this. There was no animosity. It was just time for bed.

IN THE MODERN NBA, one team's rise usually stems from another team's fall. The Nets were birthed from the wreckage of the 2019 Golden State Warriors and Boston C Bags when Durant and Irving left their respective teams in free agency to team up in Brooklyn.

It is no coincidence the Nets' final fall came after the Warriors and C Bags met in the Finals last June, with the latter getting there by sweeping the Nets in the first round.

That was a tough pill to swallow, especially for Durant. What did it mean for the Warriors to win another title before him? How could a team with Durant and Irving get swept out of the playoffs? Could he wait on Ben Simmons to regain his form? Could he trust his future success to Irving anymore?

At age 34, Durant didn't have time to waste with big questions like these. He wanted to win and didn't see that path open in Brooklyn anymore.

The Nets told him they'd look for a trade, but would only move forward if it was in the franchise's best interest. Durant had little leverage, having just agreed to a four-year, $194 million extension the previous offseason.

The Nets had tried to lock up Irving and James Harden on similar extensions, too. When they passed, that should have been the tip to all involved that something was fundamentally amiss with this superstar alignment.

In August, when no trades were forthcoming, Durant and Tsai met in person on back-to-back days while both were in London, sources said. Durant laid out his concerns with the franchise. Tsai listened and tried to calm things down enough that they could move forward together, which they ultimately did with a joint news release following a third face-to-face meeting in late August in Los Angeles.

It all might have worked had Durant not injured his knee on Jan. 15. The Nets had won 20 of 22 games heading into that game against Miami. They had largely survived the chaos Irving caused by tweeting a link to an antisemitic film in October. But when Durant went down, Irving sensed an opportunity.

He stepped up his play, averaging 30.3 points and 6.9 assists, reminding the Nets and everyone else how brilliant a basketball player he is.

Irving's value to the Nets and around the league hadn't been as high in years. He was single handedly keeping the team in contention until Durant could return from injury.

Irving then decided it was the perfect moment to leverage the Nets into a contract extension.

First came a public statement from his agent, stepmother Shetellia Riley-Irving, that Irving would love to stay in Brooklyn long term, but the "ball was in [the Nets] court" when it came to extending him.

The Nets were willing to discuss extensions for up to three seasons, but only if Irving would agree to some conditions that would protect the team if he didn't play enough games, since he'd missed more than 100 games since arriving in Brooklyn. Irving wanted a longer extension with no conditions.

There was no progress, so with the trade deadline less than a week away, Irving had his agent call Marks on the morning of Friday, Feb. 3, to demand a trade. It was a short phone call. Five minutes at most, sources said.

Tsai was in Hong Kong, 13 hours ahead, and fast asleep when Irving requested the trade. He awoke to a confusing blitz of text messages. But the path forward was clear.

Last summer they'd given Irving permission to look for trades but knew it was likely he would end up staying and they were willing to bring him back, hopefully motivated, for the last year of his contract. But now, after this demand and at this time and with everything that had happened, the Nets decided it was time to move on.

They would solicit offers and trade Irving as soon as possible. When Durant found out, he wasn't pleased with the situation, but multiple sources said he didn't immediately tie his future to Irving's.

Within hours, the Nets fielded several compelling offers for Irving. Of course, the Los Angeles Lakers were among the teams that reached out. The idea of re-pairing LeBron James with his 2016 championship teammate was irresistible, even with their baggage from another Irving trade demand a year afterward.

The issue was the Lakers' offer centered around their own troubled guard, Russell Westbrook, and two future first-round picks. There were also exploratory discussions with the LA Clippers and Suns, unaware of Durant's coming intentions, with various young players and draft compensation.

But it was the Mavericks' offer of Dorian Finney-Smith, Spencer Dinwiddie and a future first-round pick that the Nets preferred as they tried to stay competitive with Durant. Which, for that moment, was a priority.

The Nets had no interest in any deal involving Westbrook, sources said. His $47 million contract would add tens of millions to Brooklyn's luxury tax bill, and Westbrook had gone through his own messy breakup with Durant in Oklahoma City. While the Lakers' draft compensation was formidable, the Nets preferred the players they were getting from Dallas because of their value around the league, particularly Finney-Smith, and the simplicity of the deal. Any Lakers deal would've needed a third team to take on Westbrook. In the end, it wasn't that hard of a choice to decide the preferred offer to move on Irving.

The Mavericks understood the risks that come with Irving, regarding his track record of bitter breakups with teams, as well as his contract expiring this summer with no assurances that he would re-sign in Dallas.

The Mavericks decided it was much riskier to pass on this chance to acquire the co-superstar they had long been seeking to pair with Luka Doncic.

"Go for it. We need talent. He's a Hall of Fame player, and I love to play with talent," Mavs governor Mark Cuban said, paraphrasing the discussion with Doncic about trading for Irving. "Why wouldn't you take that chance?"

ISHBIA WOKE UP Wednesday in Detroit, and boarded his private plane and flew to Phoenix with his three children and other family members. He went straight to the arena and held an exciting all-hands meeting with the Suns staff at the Footprint Center, followed by a classic all-smiles introductory news conference where he laid out his vision of bringing the Suns their first championship. Typical Day 1 owner stuff.

Then, some unprecedented Day 1 owner stuff.

Ishbia made the 15-minute drive to the Suns' new practice facility with his brother, team co-owner Justin, for an important meeting. They joined Jones and Resch in Jones' second-floor glass-walled office overlooking the practice courts.

A few days earlier, a moving crew had come to clear out Sarver's office and the giant Harley-Davidson Sarver had parked inside it. Now, the new owner was about to consider the biggest decisions in the history of the franchise.

For more than four hours, the Suns' braintrust haggled over the Durant matter. Ishbia is a massive basketball fan -- he was on the Michigan State team that won the national championship in 2000 -- and he had studied and knew all the players in the deal well. But he was still learning how NBA trades work.

Resch produced a binder with all sorts of versions of the trade mapped out. But there was one number Jones and Resch were nervous about presenting: The $40 million the deal would cost in additional luxury tax. Before this season, Sarver had agreed to pay only $14 million in luxury taxes in total during his 19-year ownership, though he was going to spend more this year.

Ishbia agreed to the new costs in seconds. Maybe this was, after all, a new era in Phoenix.

But about the players and picks, that was tougher. Typically a team needs multiple bids to extract the best offer. In this case, the Nets' leverage on Phoenix was the exclusive negotiating window Ishbia and the Suns had to land the two-time Finals MVP. After the season, the rest of the league would get its chance. In real estate, brokers call that a pocket listing.

Ishbia made his fortune in the mortgage industry. He understood the tactic and the stakes.

Typically at his company, United Wholesale Mortgage, Ishbia bans cell phones in meetings. This time was different. For hours on Wednesday, calls and texts went back-and-forth between Phoenix and Brooklyn. And, in turn, communication took place from the Nets to Durant and Kleiman, as they were kept in the loop throughout the process.

OK, the Suns decided at long last. They would meet the price. Four firsts. The swap. Johnson. And, this was the tough one, Bridges too.

It was emotional in Brooklyn. Marks and his team had worked so hard with Tsai to build what they thought was a championship roster. It wasn't so long ago they were on the opposite side of this, convincing themselves to go all in with their draft picks and young players to get Harden at the trade deadline in 2021. Now, for the third time in a year, they were trading away a future Hall of Famer.

The deal got close. The adrenaline started going. But there was one problem. Now the Nets also wanted Jae Crowder, who the Suns had wanted to keep and make another trade with (the same reason Brooklyn wanted him).

This, for the moment, was the dealbreaker for the Suns' decision-makers.

With the deal off, the Ishbias left and went to a celebratory dinner at their hotel. After all, they'd just made a $4 billion purchase of an NBA team.

But it was a distracted meal at best. The phone kept ringing with James or Resch on the other line. They'd been talking to the Atlanta Hawks about trading for young forward John Collins instead. At one point, it looked like they might have a deal in place with the Hawks and the Detroit Pistons that would have landed Collins.

The Suns had liked Collins for months and worked to figure out a way to get him. But he wasn't Durant. At the team hotel, this was on Ishbia's mind.

"It's so rare to get a chance at trading for a top-five player," Ishbia told a friend as he sat at the table. He said it several times over. He couldn't get it out of his head.

Around 10:45 p.m. in Phoenix, 12:45 a.m. in Brooklyn, Ishbia called Jones. They would add the Crowder piece and agree to the deal.

Marks and the Nets' front office were still in the car when the call came in. They made a U-turn. It was back to the office. Within an hour.

It was done.

The phones were also ringing in Atlanta, where the Suns had flown after their game in Brooklyn for a Thursday matchup against the Hawks. The news was breathtaking and emotional. The front office had just executed what might go down as the biggest trade in deadline day history, but the team had to say goodbye to Bridges and Johnson, pillars of the organization for the previous four to five years and a part of the franchise's turnaround from lottery-dweller to Finals team.

Thursday morning, Suns coach Monty Williams canceled shootaround and the team met in a ballroom in their Buckhead hotel. There were tears. There were tears back in Phoenix too, as the Suns formally set up a trade call with the league to finalize the deal.

In Brooklyn, the Nets were emotionally spent. Saying goodbye to Irving was complicated. Saying goodbye to Durant was heartbreaking. Under all the stress the organization had lived through for the previous four years, Durant had been a beacon of light.

They considered it an honor to have him on their team and there was some measure of positivity that they'd sent him where he wanted to go.

They will move on with a new roster and more than a dozen draft picks they acquired over the previous few days. But not making it work with Irving, Durant and Harden will always hurt.

Something Irving, in the end, felt too.

"I think I would like to say something about the superteam of me, James [Harden] and KD that everyone thinks should have worked," Irving said after joining the Mavericks this week. "We played very limited time together, and there were a lot of injuries that took place. I would have liked to see that work for the long term, but there are no mistakes and no coincidences and you gotta move forward."
Click to expand...

JSM, Feb 10, 2023

#5880

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