Talen Horton-Tucker Discussion: Growing Pains

Link?

 

salaries dont even match

 

I'm impressed with his 1v1 defensive ability but now he can't finish layups?

Can't have two guys with iffy jumpshots who can't also finish as well: come on THT you got the talent, got to step up here

 

he's gotten lost in the shuffle; his defense has improved, and i still think his shot has looked better than the results indicate. but we're trying to win, and he's just going to have to play a role that doesn't fit him very well while we figure things out. eventually, he might have to go for his own sake like kuz did.

 

He needs to be the primary backup PG, even if Nunn comes back. He’s not a wing. If we can waive Baze or DJ and pick up a wing in the buyout that would be great for his development going forward.

 

We need to sit him until the deadline before he tanks his value even more.

 

we need to not trade him for a veteran retread while his value is at its lowest possible point.

 

Lol. Like Russ has tanker his value?

Before he falls of a cliff.

 

i really think THT is going to be fine. it hasn't exactly been a good year for anyone here. except reaves i guess.

 

I don't know what to think of him anymore: he's not scoring well but he's playing good defense and the team seems to consistently do better when he's on the court

 

Couldn't disagree more. THT shouldn't sniff PG. And Nunn should be taken out back...

We have a backup PG who should be the starting PG -- his name is Austin. But because of stupid politics...

 

Just great! Per Pincus, THT is seen as a "marginal asset" that could bolt as soon as he can with his PO, so teams aren't exactly high on him (let's not even mention him tanking his value on the court this season)

HUGE miscalculation and failure by Rob and Bron. Thanks!

Based on what they thought they were getting from him this year (and why exactly did they think this?), Rob thought he had an easy to move asset who'd net him something better than the Lowry deal from last deadline. Now, we're going to have to attach a 1st if we want anything from him.

I think a little of this could be posturing given the time of this coming out, but I belive it's all true and that teams aren't exactly lining up for him.

 

Yeah, well, at least he doesn't have a $44 million dollar price tag on him.

 

i'm still on team THT. i think the media is piling on, but you get his full bird rights if you trade for him, and that's not nothing like the article indicates.

so funny that this time last year, it was all doom and gloom and someone's going to offer THT 4/80 and the lakers can't match and blah blah blah, and now it's he's garbage and no one will take him on a 2 year/20 deal.

ok media.

i hope they won't. i'd rather not sell low on another useful player only to watch him play well elsewhere.

 

Media is piling on and they should, but for the wrong reasons and partially on the wrong people. The bigger issue than his cliff dive performance is he's not what he had to be, he makes more than all but 3 of his teammates (gotta have results), he doesn't fit and hasn't really improved in any one area. Unless he was going win most improved, he was set up to fail by sheer ignorance of Rob, Bron, and Vogel. All 3 said he was going to be the key to everything. He would score 30, play all positions, and lock down the other team's best player. Maybe i'm exaggerating a hair, but barely. Even before knowing what role they envisioned for him, I knew he was a year away still from being what we needed him to be. That doesn't really line up with our plans, especially if you're going cheap elsewhere (AC). Then bring in Russ, Nunn, and Rondo back and I really lost all sense of what the f*** is going on here. All need the ball in their hands. Oh yeah, then there's Bron who guess what. Needs the ball in his hands.

I'm pretty hard on THT. I don't mind the player at all. I hate the fit. Not his fault. His weak summer work was his fault. I didn't expect him to be 1/10 of the player the Lakers were counting on, but wanted to see clear and steady improvement in at least one area and I haven't. He'll be like all the other kids. He'll leave and have a lot of success elsewhere.

I wish he would've gotten a bigger deal for us to match, then we'd have more trade options. I almost wonder if Rob was convinced that THT had a better off-season than he did by Bron and Rich Paul. Currently, this is worse than our early payments of the KCP tax before he became legit.

 

the fact that he makes more than all but three players on our team lies FULLY at the feet of our poor decision to trade for westbrook. he'd be the 6th or 7th highest paid otherwise, as he would be on nearly all of our competitors' rosters.

if he was going to score 30 and lock down all positions, why was he had for less than the MLE? if you knew he was a year away, why are you mad he isn't great this year? would you have preferred we let him walk or let a team sign him to a more lucrative RFA deal (this happens a lot)? i'm mad enough we let AC walk out the door. if we let THT walk for the same amount, i might have just walked out.

and you basically admitted yourself that it's likely he plays well elsewhere. what does that mean? and why does that translate to the fan outrage at the player?

we made a trade that prevented him from playing the role he's most ready for. management didn't miscalculate his value on the open market; they miscalculated the value of the westbrook trade. by a longshot.

let's not make him another casualty of our impatience.

anyway, absolute worst thing we could possibly do is trade him for a vet right now. just terrible.

 

Yes, the money he makes and our roster's salary imbalance is squarely on Rob and Bron. I'm never going to blame a kid for taking the bag. But there was no reason to chase bad money with more bad money. Bron and AD didn't give us a choice. We were getting a 3rd star. Price of the ring and I'd pay it again. We could've succeeded with a balanced roster around our 3. I put one together in 10 minutes in the Rob thread last week.
AD/Biyombo/Dwight
Bron/Melo
Jeff Green/Porter/Wes
Monk/AR/Ellington
Russ/AC/Rondo
(Even if you don't get that exact roster, I laid out some alternatives that would've been just fine)
Our 4th highest paid player has been closer to unplayable than valuable. There's at least 1 player on every team who doesn't fit or will fit better elsewhere. It's why there are trades and players leave teams. Those who seek to get better work or to keep getting paid find ways to make contributions despite their circumstances. That is what falls at the feet of THT for me. Salary weighs heavier than age whether it's fair or not, it's the nature of pro sports.

That's kind of my point. How the F did three of our most important people on this team at that time (Bron, Rob, Vogel) think that?! The playoffs SCREAMED two years away from the mountain tops. If anyone saw different, he would've gotten the Brinks truck.

My irritation with him is results vs. regression by way of insufficient preparation. While he can't control fit, can't control what someone is willing to give him, can't control that Rob signed 10 guys who play the same positions, leaving him to play the PF at times (God help us all!), he can control effort. Everyone told us he worked tirelessly on his shot, then why is every % except FTs down? Even under best circumstances, he knew he wasn't going to get tons of touches, so you know you have to make the most of the ones you get. He's gotten a F in that department.

In hindsight, i would've loved if he walked. If we took the approach of the roster I suggest above, there's no need for him. If I knew the FO was going to make it THT or AC, I think we'd all pack his bags for him. With how cheap we've been and the fact that Rob was busy sitting on his office floor, rolling pennies he scraped up from the nearest fountain to pay for Stan... yeah, I'd much rather THT be elsewhere and us not wait till Christmas to get Stan or get EXTREMELY lucky that he jumped through our hoops and stayed around and is locked in for 1.5 years. We could've gotten a couple 2nd rounders or heavily protected late 1st for him and considering how bare the shelves are, I'd rather have that.

I guarantee he'll do better elsewhere. He is going to fail until he succeeds. We don't have that kind of time or s*** team for him to stumble his way through it. Championship or bust. That results in heavy expectations that increase with every dollar they earn on the team. He'll put up better numbers because he won't go to a team with two stars or two of the most ball dominant players in the league. It's Kuz all over again.

What it means? There will be opportunity and limited expectations where he can just be a kid in his early 20s trying to figure s*** out in the NBA.

Outrage: covered it above... dollars create expectations and those demand results. Demand gets higher and the excuses don't cut it anymore. You have to fix it or become overpaid/overrated, which then gets over corrected if the hour glass runs out before he gets it together. Then you're back to fighting for your spot and salary and are back to being underpaid.

As long as Bron is here, I'm against paying kids or getting too attached. Yes, you have to worry about after Bron but whether we have the best kids or undrafted kids, we're going to be a lottery team. We're not paying Bron and letting him play GM if we're not going chips all in every year. Patience is a luxury you don't have when going up against father time.

There's probably not a vet I'd trade him for right now based on the names out there and his tanking value. Would have done Grant or Turner deal in a nanosecond (like i said in the rumors thread, would still do a Turner deal if the medical checks out). Someone might shake free in the final hours of deadline day, so I won't completely rule it out though.