Russell Westbrick Discussion: Clipper Gonna Clip

I mean what more do you need
Among qualified PGs"
He's 44th TS% (it's below .500)
He's 10 worst in TOV rate
He's 29th in PER
He's 45th in offensive rating
He's 35th in defensive rating

All the stats that go with Synergy data that try to show things that aren't noted in the boxscore such as shooting gravity, boxout indicate that he's been
The article if you actually read it showed that Lebron's 3 pt rate normalized in his non Westbrook minutes

I think it's on you to show that the stats are lying here because the across the board he's not been good.

 

https://towardsdatascience.com/problems-with-per-in-the-nba-fa0e611543e2

https://paceandspacehoops.com/per-is-a-garbage-stat-and-we-should-stop-using-it/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fansid...on-calculus-101-true-shooting-percentage/amp/

Stats and analytics are subjective. Even these are telling me that Monk is one of the elite defensive guards in the NBA.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/d...Season&PlayerPosition=G&StarterBench=Starters

 

Lol your reaching now everyone in there mother knows PER has problems:. The problem is no matter how you dice it efficiency per possession, synergy, plus minus he comes out bad.

That's on top of the eye test which shows he has no gravity, makes boneheaded decisions for every athletic good play he makes, and just gets lost on defense

 

He's supposed to be star as well not just some roleplayer. The expectations for him are high and he's not even crossing the bar of a positive player right now

 

And yet I ask you again to point out the games specifically, where his bad play was the contributing factor to the Lakers losing that game. The games not a stat, you watched them, they should be easy to point out.

Per, TS%, defensive rating...they all seemed to be flawed from what I posted. Do you consider Malik Monk to be an elite defender? The stats suggest so.

 

Use you advanced stats to point out the games then. It seems that you are having a problem coming up with them. We can talk about each specific game and Russ terrible play in it.

 

PER was one of the dumbest things I’ve seen. I created an arbitrary weighting algorithm based on box scores when I was 14—long before hollinger—and it was a) dumb, b) accurate in some ways, and c) for a junior high speech class.

Advanced stats have problems, but PER is a box score stat and has like, all the problems.

 

Dude do you just not see plays like this?



I mean this is his shot chart. A guy who is terrible at 3's

 

I have advanced stats too........


8 wins
+
9 losses

= 17 games

Total = Suckage

 

No the not living up to expectations for what he was brought in to do is A problem with this team. Your love of this guys’ game has blinded you to the fact that he’s not making this team better.

 

Wait. Absolutely none of that has to do with Russ. He’s fit in perfectly! All teams that have had AT LEAST two, sometimes THREE MAX players for every game should be hovering around .500. Totally acceptable for a team with Championship aspirations.

 

Dude you came up with one clip against the Bucks, but you overlooked those 15 assists? He shot 1-4 from 3 against Boston true indeed. He's no Steph Curry, but AD and our shooter Ellington went 0-7 from 3 but it was Westbrook's shooting? Ok..

 

If that's how you see it..I never said anything about perfection but...Yeah he plays all 5 positions and coaches the team to boot.

 

You just don’t have evidence to show how he’s made this team better. Instead, your weak argument you always fall back on is “he can’t play all five positions.”
Thank God that he can’t because it would a completely unwatchable team. You must be the only one right and everyone else who is showing you evidence to the contrary is making it all up. Denial is an ugly thing.

 

Not exactly. I had different expectations..I already knew he wasn't a shooter, so shooting was never an issue to me.Points scored don't mean everything to me. At the moment I don't think Vogel knows what he's doing, and that's the biggest issue with the current group. But it's still early and James just got back, and some guys are still out. I'm not in panic mode . I look around the league and the West isn't exactly loaded IMO. So check back with me on the overall situation around Christmas.

 

Nobody has showed me anything but a few stats. You still can't point out these games he is specifically responsible for us losing. Make the team better is a rather ambiguous statement. At our current record which player is exactly making the team better? Is the coach making the team better? Lots of blame to go around presently. I watched those guys from last season waffle around 500 without Lebron at least they had a whole season to judge, we aren't at 20 games yet. I can't say that if James missed 8 games this early last year, that group would have put up a better record.

 

Moving goalposts: you haven't made any case then "watch the games" and then when it's pointed out that yes other people watch the games and not his lack of shooting, his poor defense, and his bone head plays negate his strengths so that overall the fit just isn't there. This is the Russell Westbrook thread not the AD and Wellington trade : a guy making 44 million and whose trade took away the core roleplayers that got this team a title. The point should be that for that kind of move, I'm hoping it should be easy to make a case for if he was playing anywhere close to well and he's not.

I agree though the season is young and Lebron now has to get his legs again and even THT has just played his first few games. Throw in this team really needs a healthy Ariza and Reaves and it's good they theoretically have the personnel to fix a lot of the problems they have. It would be a lot easier if Westbrook was playing well and he isn't and it's scary instead that season may depend on a 20 yo first time starter, an undrafted rookie FA, and yet another old wing

 

The goal posts have been in the same spot all along. I simply said pick these games he lost for us. Let's actually review what happened in said game. You deflect with some stats and salary and general well everybody agrees. No they don't...Russ deserves some blame, not as much as gets thrown at him IMO. Westbrook thread or not.

Big picture, I think Nunn is a baller, Lebron will figure out how to adjust to what he asked for...a dynamic point guard. Sooner or later Vogel will get a clue or Fizdale will be winning another chip. I'm not as worried as you are basically.

You keep sidestepping that Monk question I notice. Lol

 

Try and get your discussions straight. Did I single out Russ as singlehandedly costing us games? No. What do Bradley and Rondo have to do with this discussion? The whole team is bad at defense. However, he's paid $44M while they are on minimum contracts, so the expectations are different. At $44M per year, you should clearly be helping your team wins, not being compared to minimum contracts.

As I've already stated, I was in favor of the trade and said it would take at least 20-30 games to evaluate, but we're trending in the wrong direction and it's been some of the ugliest basketball I've seen. I also said there's time to turn it around and I'm not ruling it out, but to pretend it hasn't been awful along the way and that the concern isn't legit is a clear state of denial. This team has a lot of issues right now so it's not all on Russ, but excluding a few games, he just hasn't looked very good.

You've always had a knack for completely misconstruing someone's argument and then telling them to prove something they weren't saying in the first place. Do better.