Russell Westbrick Discussion: Clipper Gonna Clip

Because, and there are innumerable examples of this, if you work on your shot - it tends to improve.

If you exclude improvement during his first two seasons, his 3pt% has been hovering around 30% and his FT% has actually gotten significantly worse.

 

There are just as many if not more examples of people who didn’t improve their shot. Correlation doesn’t prove causation.

 

While it's true one must practice doing things the "right way" in order to improve, I'll still take somebody who works on their game over someone who doesn't.

Shaq practiced free throws his whole career, and his form was always crap. Still managed to win championships, so there's hope for Russ even with his limitations.

 

We need to stop rooting for a league where that might happen. We can't be expecting to be great by wanting other stars to force trades to come to us

 

That's not correlation. High murder rate and ice cream sales are.

You are dealing with formal logic here.

See here.

So..

If it is given that, when you work on your shot, it improves, and we see the shot isn't improving, it must mean that you don't work on your shot, otherwise we'd have a contradiction.

One way for you to dispute that statement is to prove the basis wrong, that is that when you work on your shot, it improves is a false statement. Good luck with that.

You could also dispute what work on your shot constitutes. Lonzo is a prime example. That I would agree with an we'd have a discussion.

 

I can’t believe that after 13 plus seasons, he is someone who puts in a lot of time improving his shot and is still a 46% shooter from 2, a 29% shooter from 3, and a 65% shooter from the FT stripe.

 

two logical issues.

one is that svtzr was indeed challenging your premise that work necessarily means improvement. i agree that guys have worked and not improved much, particularly from three (and the ft line, as others pointed out with shaq as an example). dwight powell is one of the hardest workers in the nba, and all he's needed to become a 20 million per player is a standstill three point shot. you think he hasn't worked his a** off at it? he just can't do it, physically or mentally or whatever.

the other issue is the backward inference from an outcome to a single causal variable, when there may be several variables that impact shooting percentage aside from "working on your shot". you can become a better shooter by getting stronger, by taking better shots, by being put into systems that optimize your shooting, etc.

i highly doubt westbrook is a bad shooter from distance because he's never put in the work. i think it's a couple steps outside his range, just like it is for AD. it's why people want guys like that to stick to the corners, a shorter shot that non-three point shooters have had a better time mastering.

ft shooting is as much mental as physical, imo. i shot 90% in practice and below 70% in the games. i just couldn't replicate the situation (mostly how amped i was during actual games vs. practice) when practicing. i don't know why russ went from being an 80% ft shooter for nearly a decade to a 65% shooter for the past few years, though. super weird. highly doubt it's practice-related, though.

 

I’m sorry but that’s not a given. If you work on your shot and it improves - that’s correlation not causation.

Working on A can lead to improvement of B. But that’s not always the case, developing a jump shot is the exception and not the rule. Kobe worked like a dog on his game, yet he never became an outstanding 3 pt shooter? His career average is 32.9% - working on your shot and it improving isn’t a truth.

The better question is, if Russ is a hard worker (which every team mate credits him with) why hasn’t his shot improved?

I believe it has to do with his mechanics. In particular Russ jumps extremely high on his jump shots, he needs to stay vertically balanced at that height and he sometimes shoots after the Apex of that jump. So he has three variables to contend with - jump height, vertical balance and release timing. If any of those are different every time your going to struggle with consistency and rely on how your legs are feeling that night.

I believe that’s why a lot of posters were hoping he’d develop a set shot working with Rondo. And before you say if he was a hard worker, he’d just rebuild his shot, these guys have been shooting a certain way for over 20 years - it’s not that simple or easy.

 

I've seen people say that it tanked because the NBA banned his free throw routine lol. he can't walk out to the three point line and take a breather before shooting the second.

I agree with svtzr about his mechanics. He has a very stiff release with varying release points and I think it used to look better when he was younger.

He could develop a floater or something as well to give another option to score.

 

It's INSTANTANEOUS when Westbrook isn't in control, and there is someone who makes sounds decisions, it changes everything. I do not know where this will be in the playoffs but it's a major concern.

 

Simply put, we cannot put the ball in this guy’s hands in crunch time when the game is on the line. He single-handedly put the Spurs back in the game down the stretch today.

 

It definitely concerns me for the playoffs. I have to believe LeBron wins that tug of war to get the ball in the closing minutes.

 

this makes sense to me, actually. like i said, my ft shooting was because i was too hyped during the games. being able to walk it off for a second might have done it for me, too.

just give me a time machine...

 

That's interesting.

I think he tries his best out there.

It just doesn't result in a very positive impact most of the time.

Is it really just all mental?

I just don't get it. Referring to the reduction in percentage from the line and his crunch time turnovers.

Idk.

 

The anti-Caruso, the Bizarro to the Eagle’s Superman, the minus/minus king

 

I dare you to watch him on defense. I did all game today. Instead of staying at least arm’s length from his assignment, he makes sure he’s close to the paint so he can pad his rebounding stats. The most egregious example of this was the Spurs’ last sequence with a minute to go. He gets rubbed off a screen, has a chance to try to block Young’s pass, but refuses. Stays in the key as first three goes up with Spurs have an open man around the arc. Clank. Stays in the key still as second three goes up. Clank. Still makes no attempt to guard anyone, or box anyone out. This time, the last three goes in from top of the arc.

 

That s*** needs to stop. Someone he respects needs to hold him accountable for not adequately covering his man waaay too often. Obviously it’s not that he’s not fast or athletic enough.

 

Someone on the coaching staff needs to pull him aside and call him out for it. Or, have LeBron do it.