We were winning with LBJ and the kids healthy. Then he tore his groin... then BI and Zo went out. We would have won 50 games with them healthy. I'm very happy with the season so far, but we are an injury away from this season getting derailed as well. Is AD still a good player if he loses without LBJ? Yes. Is BI still a good player if loses with Zion... I'd say so far it seems so. Is AD better than BI? Yes Is AD better than BI plus five other assets? You say absolutely yes... I say we need to see how it plays over the long term.
You just compared LeBron’s impact with Zion’s, a guy who has never played one actual NBA game, wow. Also, I don’t love opinions stated as facts. We WOULD have won 50 games with them healthy? I don’t know about that. We COULD have, maybe, if they gelled. But expecting those kids to be healthy is part of the problem, they never stay healthy, so that if is a HUGE if, not likely to ever be reality. It can easily be argued LeBron got injured because he had to go into “playoff mode” in December because the team couldn’t win otherwise. So carrying that big a load was not sustainable, carrying those kids like he’d just carried a mediocre Cleveland team to the finals was not going to let his body hold up. Now he has a guy like AD to share the load and a team full of veterans that actually know how to play defense and can help cover for him there on nights where he might need to conserve energy on that side.
As someone said in another post, does Gobert win without Donovan scoring? Probably not... and this is what I'm saying about Zion... Ingram was expected to be the number two or three option to Zion and Jrue... Zion's hurt and Jrue playing like garbage was the most likely reason for the poor start. This doesn't mean Mitchell is as good as LBJ... this only means that he is crucial to this particular team's success. Of course I'm not saying winning 50 games was guaranteed... however we were on a 48 game winning pace when he went down after enduring a terrible start... 50 games was a very achievable mark for that team. LBJ was getting flamed all over social media for his lack of effort on defense so your defense wearing him out theory seems a reach. Maybe you have a point about minutes but he only played a minute more per game than last season so I'm not sure about that either. AD has been great on defense but also we have been greatly fortified by Dwight's interior presence. Add Dwight to last year's team and maybe we are on a 50 plus game pace as well.
Where did I say LeBron wore out because of defense? I said it’s likely he wore out because he had to carry the team way earlier than he wanted to, carry them like he had just carried Cleveland for a season and 4 playoff rounds. He was coasting to start the season and his defense was mediocre at best, but then he had to “go into playoff mode” early and as we were already close to, if not the fastest team in the league as far as pace at that point, it likely contributed to his injury. It’s never as black and white as he played this many minutes, the kind of minutes matter. It’s also never as black and white as we were “on pace” for 48 wins, the strength of schedule always needs to be taken into account as well as many other factors, like Will our injury prone kids hold up, which they didn’t. I’ve no interest in continuing this discussion though, I don’t like when the argument is changed through misquoting, and I don’t feel like looking in the rear view mirror when what’s ahead is so much better.
Since assumptions and opinions are being stated as facts by some I'm going to double down on my recollection of LBJ's "groan" injury not being a factor at all of wearing down last season. He was just getting into a groove as was the team after the early season suspensions and injuries. I saw him SLIP on a wet spot a game or two before and do really bad splits. He stayed down and he was grimacing. It didn't look good at that time. Cue the full pull two games or whatever later. That's MY story and I'm sticking to it.
LeBron is paying harder on defense this season while playing one less minute per game. That would lead me to believe he's putting out more effort this season than last season. He just played in a fourth quarter blowout when he didn't need to so I don't agree with your theory that the kids wore him down.
I was out, but I can’t not respond to that, because wow. I literally just said you aren’t taking all circumstances into account. LeBron had just gone to 8 straight NBA Finals. The 2018 one he had carried a a team like he hadn’t done since probably his first appearance. Then he comes here and tries to coast early and we aren’t very good, so he goes into “playoff mode”, his words, in December, and gets injured. How you don’t see those as correlating I have no clue. And again you twist my words, I didn’t say “the kids wore him down”, I said having to yet again carry a more inexperienced group contributed to him wearing down early, along with us playing around the fastest pace in the league, a pace LeBron had literally never played at before, in his 16th season. He’s probably expending too much energy this early in this season too, but that’s on him and how he is choosing to play, but we definitely have helped him greatly by adding defensive guards next to him like Green and Bradley, and a superstar in AD as far as how much he HAS to do for us to succeed. He also got the entire offseason off for the first time since like his rookie year, so of course that’s a factor and of course that matters in how much energy he has right now vs him coming off a Finals appearance. I don’t see how this is arguable. Get LeBron in a room one on one off the record and ask him how much he had to carry last year vs this year and I have zero doubt he’d laugh at the difference. Loved BI, Zo, and Hart, but Zo couldn’t stay on the court or draw defenders of LeBron because he can’t shoot, Hart couldn’t stay healthy and had a very down season, and BI was my favorite, but he’s a iso scorer and did not mesh with LeBron, which was baffling because they worked in preseason. The trade had to be done, and the results are obvious, we went from a maybe playoff team to a maybe championship team. In my eyes the only way you can argue that or be down about the move is if you’re not looking at our former players through an unbiased lens and are more stuck on them for sentimental reasons. I get it, people loved Eddie Jones (I didn’t), and Van Exel and some others, but to win a title we moved on to guys like Harper, Horry, and Rice, and it payed off.
I've said multiple times that so far this season looks good. As a Lakers fan I'm not going to root against my team so I can be proven right. I hope I'm proven wrong time and time again. I just think we gave up too much and it's too early to conclude anything. I'm enjoying the ride right now, but that doesn't mean my eyes and mind aren't going to be wide open. I enjoying reading all the opposing takes... I only comment when people say certain things are foregone conclusions.
Damn, SM. You can't look at the trade that way, waiting to see with the luxury of hindsight whether it was a good move or not. Everything at the time emphatically pointed to yes that was the right move to make and still DOES point that way. How many years do you want for your odd way of looking at it? Your argument is just weird to me. And ask @LaVarBallsDad just how attached I was to the kids.
If anyone says they like the trade... I have no argument with them. It's their opinion. It's when they imply it's an indisputable, empirical truth that makes me want to respond. I have moved ahead and am enjoying the season. I just mentioned how had we not lost to the Raptors that we had a legit shot at a 20 game winning streak with the run of games ahead. I'm just very nervous about how much depends on LBJ's age and AD's ability to play 70 plus games... as well as our ability to resign Dwight next season. When your plan relies on hoping for ringchasers and the health of a 36 year old (next season) it sounds a little shaky.
So we could remain a maybe playoff team and worry about Zo and Ingram staying healthy and how much LeBron having to carry a team built around them caused more wear on him too, or we could worry about being a maybe championship team and how much that relies on our 2 superstars. Tough choice. Also, now our future suddenly relies on re-signing Dwight?! I can’t keep up with these moving goalposts. First, we don’t even know if Dwight will make it through this season, and second, how we don’t know if a better or equally as good option will present itself next offseason, so that argument is a non starter to me. Last season we didn’t see Tyson Chandler coming out of nowhere to help us, this year we didn’t see Dwight, you can’t say next year’s plan is shaky when we aren’t even close to seeing it yet.
Right now, if we are going to win the title... it will depend on players like Dwight, Rondo and AB returning to some semblance of their previous form and our two young guys Kuzma and AC taking a leap forward in growth. I've watched every game from start to finish and it's not like we are coasting to victory each game. It would be nice if we could maintain the 9-2 pace, but maybe a 7-4 pace is more realistic. Again, I've said I think we are better than the Pels this season, I'm merely projecting what might happen if players like Zion, Hayes, NAW hit and BI and Lonzo can stay healthy. If the kids remain injury prone then yes there's no debate we won the trade. If they are healthy it's not as clear. I want us to win ten in a row because the schedule in December is much more difficult. I still think we can win those games but we can't count on it either. The good news for us is that Milwaukee and Philly seem to have taken a step backwards... the only really scary team in the West is the Clippers maybe Denver I think this year is our best shot at the title... after that it decreases slightly with LBJ's age unless we make a very lucky signing or two. That's why I mention Dwight or Boogie. They are once elite talents who can help offset LBJ's decline if we can at least land one of them at a reduced price. I understand your point about Zo and Ingram but they were never meant to be a first or second option. They were meant to be played with two elites. I think Ingram has proven he can be a third option I think Hart has proven to be a good rotation player. The jury is still out on Zo.
Sometimes I think @vasashi17 has a burner account to very smartly f*** with us as happened in the BonkScooter affair. When you keep dancing around the point in time exactly with all available information on hand the decision was made. Not hypotheticals or what happens it the future. This isn't logical what you're doing. IMO. JK @vasashi17
LT, you have me on anti-ignore... As for the burner account claim...Sentient is his own individual and he chooses to discuss it and others are partaking so I aint getting in the way of it cause I already rehashed my position on it. Plus Lakers Discussion is where I normally like to be. Although you are giving me an idea to break thru to those that have me on ignore...hmmm. #BryanColangelosVife...sounds like a promising handle.
Yes, it was well worth making a burner account to take the controversial position that if the kids do well, and LBJ ages quickly it might become a problem. Wow what a radical position. It looks good now, but it might not be great in two years. Let me think of other lukewarm positions I can take and make with other accounts. /sarcasm
Golden State is now down to 9 healthy players- 8 is the league requirement. K. Bowman G. Robinson III D. Green J. Poole A. Burks O. Spellman M. Chriss E. Paschall W. Cauley-Stein The injuries keep piling up for the Golden State Warriors. Warriors guard D'Angelo Russell is set to miss a minimum of two weeks after an MRI confirmed he suffered a sprained right thumb against the Boston C Bags on Friday.
In other news the Clippers look really good and PG looks like the best player on the Clips. The Clips are susceptible to large mobile bigs as Harrell isn’t big or strong enough and Zubac is too slow. #PG>Kawhi #LoadManagementUsedAsAnExcuseNotToPlayInBigGames
I’ve watched every game of theirs this season (yes basketball junkie)... their perimeter defense is outstanding but even marginally talented bigs are feasting inside.
