Anthony Davis Discussion: Only Player On Both All NBA + All Def

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by vasashi17, Sep 23, 2018.

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  1. OX1947

    OX1947 - Lakers MVP -

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    OX1947, Jun 21, 2019
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  2. DarthRekal

    DarthRekal - Rookie -

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    With all this calling back and cap drama.. I was literally afraid that the deal would be reneged or fall through...

    CP3 ptsd... it's a thing.

    As soon as I saw that the Pels traded our pick .. I said yes! Gotcha betch! They cant reneg now.
     
    DarthRekal, Jun 22, 2019
    #6622
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  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    None of that stuff was true Darth. Woj and Ramona and Bobby Marks were literally lying about it. They all then backed off on draft night and nobody said anything about it. Bill Oram was trying to tell people for days that Rob knew what he was doing, but nobody cared.

    This was always the deal: New Orleans accepts the trade and then looks to flip the #4 pick. Once that happens, the Lakers re-enter the deal and negotiate with the 3rd team on dumping salary if we get a max player. The thing is, we don't know if we have a max yet. Once we know one is in the bag, we'll dump the salary as needed to Atlanta. And if we don't have a max player in hand? Then we just send the trade through as is and we have AD and LeBron.
     
    therealdeal, Jun 22, 2019
    #6623
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  4. DarthRekal

    DarthRekal - Rookie -

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    Appreciate the break down. Still didnt stop a guy from worrying. PTSD and cp3 PTSD.. we worry and are jittery lol thanks. I hope we can get the max
     
    DarthRekal, Jun 22, 2019
    #6624
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  5. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I understand. I just hate the media has been able to influence our summer this much. We're sitting on two of the top 6 or 7 players in the league and nobody seems to appreciate that at all in the media. We went from dumpster fire to literal Vegas favorite and we get no respect for it.
     
    therealdeal, Jun 22, 2019
    #6625
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  6. vasashi17

    vasashi17 LB's Resident Capologist

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    I'd like to think the "scramble" narrative is true.

    Rob-Griff/Trajan agree to a Zo, Bi,Hart signed 4th deal, which is why only those names were mentioned officially. Unless we use our cap, just Zo, Bi, Hart can't bring back AD alone. A signed 4th can tho, plus AD gets his entire trade kicker.

    There might have been some kind of dialogue tho where the Pels can shop the 4th, in which case the timeline moves up where the 4th can't be signed and aggregated. Rob agrees to it, in order for the deal not to fall through.

    So now we need to "scramble" to move more salary to match AD's without the 4th being aggregated.... Which is why we are "aggressive" in trying to trade for 2nd rounders to replace the cheap salary guys in Moe, Bonga,JJ that weren't part of the original and agreed upon deal. Plus AD/Klutch are still under the impression they would get his trade kicker... Which is why the trade kicker narrative leaked out.

    But all in all, our agreed upon deal had it where we had a max spot available. The scramble narrative has it where we want to preserve that max slot.

    So if anything, this all tells me we got a max slot player on the way for sure. I'm just hoping it's Kawhi.

    Btw Darth... You're absolutely right in that once Griff/Trajan traded the 4th, it implies no party, whether its us, the Pels or the Hawks, wants this deal to implode now.
     
    vasashi17, Jun 22, 2019
    #6626
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  7. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't agree with "scrambling". That and the "call back" line were completely done vindictively by Ramona and Woj because they had no idea what was going on with the trade. They were both lies. "Scrambling" has a connotation of lack of preparedness and that's simply not what happened. Woj even admitted it at the draft. Rob knew the timelines so how could he be scrambling? Rob knew the timelines, so why would he be calling back in order to get the deal done in his parameters? Those two are full of ****.

    I agree with everything else. It looks to me like these deals were always contingent on the next part and next part and the next. Unfortunately we won't know what's going to happen until closer to June 30th or July 6th because there's no incentive for us to dump the three kids unless we have a max guy coming. I too am hopeful though that the construction of the trades means we've got a good idea somebody else is coming.

    I mean when you think about it... There's got to be SOMEone who wants to join a LeBron/Davis duo and probably run the league while the Warriors rehab. And s*** the Warriors might not look the same if KD goes East.
     
    therealdeal, Jun 22, 2019
    #6627
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  8. Sipnotic

    Sipnotic - Rookie -

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    Honestly, a part of me was concerned about that too. But I figured once they either make a selection or trade, the deal can’t possibly fall through. Glad it worked out though.

    On the reporting note, I’ve completely lost respect for woj and Ramona. Woj has been so partisan in his reporting over the last year or so and Ramona for some reason turned on the lakers. Not even the lakers, but responsible reporting I’d say.
     
    Sipnotic, Jun 22, 2019
    #6628
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  9. Lakerman JSJ

    Lakerman JSJ Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed.

    And I’m so tired of the eye-rolling condescension from other pompous media members about this topic. Sure, some fans are unreasonable and quick to claim persecution when a negative report comes out against their team, but that doesn’t mean we’re incapable of calling out obvious negative agendas/spin that are mostly nonsense.

    The media’s so damn sensitive with cries of “Fake News”, but they don’t do themselves any favors when they put out false narratives as fact. Take some responsibility for once, clowns.
     
    Lakerman JSJ, Jun 22, 2019
    #6629
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  10. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    Media are just like NBA refs, they can f*** up all they want and no one will say s*** or do anything. I wish i had a job like that :)
     
    Kenzo, Jun 22, 2019
    #6630
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  11. Cookie

    Cookie The Dame of Doom Staff Member

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    Be a weather person, it’s the same kind of thing.
     
    Cookie, Jun 22, 2019
    #6631
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  12. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Weezy, Jun 22, 2019
    #6632
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  13. Battle Tested20

    Battle Tested20 Moderator Staff Member

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    Granted they have been known to be wrong before, but I listened to Bobby Marks who joined Zach Lowe on his podcast along with Jonathan Givony to do a draft recap. He was saying that the Lakers cannot work with ATL on something to include any of our young players like (Moe, JJ, Bonga) to get to the max slot because that trade is separate between the trade that we made with the Pelicans even though that trade involved our 4th pick. It's a littler hard to explain but given Bobby's GM experience and how closely he knows how the CAP works I definitely believe him on this one.

    Here is the podcast if you want to listen to it on your own. The part above I'm talking about starts shortly after the 3:45 mark when Bobby recaps where we're at right now.

     
    Battle Tested20, Jun 23, 2019
    #6633
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  14. BigSmoove

    BigSmoove - Rookie -

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    Well can't all three teams just agree to make it one three team trade?
     
    BigSmoove, Jun 23, 2019
    #6634
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  15. Battle Tested20

    Battle Tested20 Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe, and Eric Pincus article below kind of alludes to this after I read that this morning. So now I'm back to being unsure, haha



    I guess in theory anything is possible but Marks is coming from the standpoint that its very rare for that many teams to decide to do one team a solid favor and add in more things to only benefit that one team.
     
    Battle Tested20, Jun 23, 2019
    #6635
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  16. SmoothOperator

    SmoothOperator - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I’m having trouble understanding something.

    Why do we have to only deal Wagner/Bonga/Jones to either the Pelicans or Hawks to get max cap space?

    Why can’t we trade them to the 27 other teams? They would be off our roster thus opening the cap space right?

    I mean I don’t like the idea of a max guy committing to us then only to be screwed over by either Atlanta or NOP because they don’t want to help us get Kawhi or something.
     
    SmoothOperator, Jun 23, 2019
    #6636
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  17. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    It can involve the other team, but since the contracts that are involved in the AD trade, we have to send out money within 125% of Anthony Davis’ contract. Currently, we are not within that threshold which means the trade incurs a 15% penalty to our cap, which is where that $23M figure is coming from. So we have to send out those three guys to fit under that number, whether it’s to the Pels or Hawks, or another team IF those two teams agree with it, but that’s all they have to do if another team is involved, it would be in their best interest if they want those assets and draft picks we picked FOR them IN GOOD FAITH.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
    lakerfan2, Jun 23, 2019
    #6637
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  18. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

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    from old reddit, from a C bag fan of all people



    Honestly, it sounds like a bunch of b******* to me. You should fully expect the Lakers to have around 32 mil in cap space. You should fully expect them to use it to sign a 3rd star. For clarity, none of these trades have been made official yet. To be clear, none of them are going to become official until all parties involved (Lakers, Pelicans, Hawks, etc) jump on a group call (either on July 6th or 30th) and send it into the league.

    Here's a breakdown of how this plays out.

    Current Laker Cap situation:

    • LeBron - 37.4 mil
    • Lonzo - 8.7 mil
    • Ingram - 7.2 mil
    • Wagner - 2 mil
    • Kuzma - 1.9 mil
    • Hart - 1.9 mil
    • Bonga - 1.4 mil
    • Jones - 1.4 mil
    • Deng (stretch) - 5 mil
    • Cap Hold for Hunter (4th pick) - 7 mil
    • Minimum Roster Charge - 900k
    • Minimum Roster Charge - 900k
    • Minimum Roster Charge - 900k
    Total salary: 77 mil

    Salary Cap: 109 mil

    Cap room: 32 mil

    July 1: Free agency opens. Lakers likely will have meetings with all the notable names... Kemba, Kyrie, Kawhi, Butler, etc. They'll offer a deal that pays 32 million the first year. Someone will agree to take it.

    July 6: The free agent moratorium ends. It's signing day. The Lakers will sign someone to a near-max contract making 32 mil

    "The Problem" explained: After the Lakers sign their max star, they then look to execute the Davis trade. There will be no "gotcha" from the Pelicans where they call it in and screw over the Lakers. That isn't how this works. The trade will not be executed until the Lakers get on the call. Technically, all parties can just back out... but that isn't happening... it's an unprecedented haul for the Pelicans and they have ever incentive to make it work. There's also now a 3rd party involved (Hawks getting #4).

    The Lakers are sending the salary of Ball (8.7 mil), Ingram (7.2 mil) and Hart (1.9 mil). In total that's 17.8 in outgoing salary. You're allowed to take back 125% of that. That would only allow the Lakers to take back 22.25 mil. This is the crux of the issue, because Anthony Davis makes 27 mil.

    The Lakers selected De'Andre Hunter with the #4 pick. They own his rights now. He has yet to sign a contract with the Lakers. Before a rookie signs a contract, he can still be included in a trade, but it doesn't count as outgoing salary. In other words, despite #4 being sent out by the Lakers, they still functionally are only able to take back 22.2 mil in salary assuming they eat up their 32 million with a max signing.

    Solution 1: Solution #1 is to just sign De'Andre Hunter to his contract. Doing so starts a 30 day clock before he can be traded. This was essentially the exact situation that happened during the Kevin Love/Andrew Wiggins trade. The Cavs had to sign Wiggins and then wait 30 days before including his salary in a trade for salary matching purposes. There was a month where everyone knew the trade was happening, but they had to pretend like it wasn't official. Nonetheless, if the Lakers choose to sign Hunter, he couldn't be traded until 30 days after the start of the season. The season officially starts July 1st... so he wouldn't be tradeable until July 30th. At that point, his contract of 7 mil can be included with Lonzo, Ingram and Hart (24.8 mil outgoing) and the Lakers can take back as much as 31 mil in trade... plenty enough to take back Davis' 27 mil contract.

    Again... there is no "gotcha" here from the Pelicans or the Lakers. You can safely assume that both parties are being open and transparent, because both have heavy incentive to make this work. Otherwise, the Lakers just sign Hunter and force the 30 day clock to start. There's no way the Pelicans can just make this trade happen without the Lakers involvement. Again... that's not how NBA trades work.

    Solution 2: This is what both parties are likely working on right now. The Pelicans have already looped in a third team (Atlanta). They can easily expand the trade further. Essentially, as long as the Lakers are also sending out the salaries of Wagner, Bonga and Jones, this gets done. The Pelicans probably don't have the roster spots for those 3 guys at this point, so the Lakers just need to send those guys to Atlanta or send some 2nd rounders along with them to some teams willing to get a freebie. Bottom line is that if the Lakers are sending out Ball (8.7 mil), Ingram (7.2 mil), Hart (1.9 mil), Bonga (1.4 mil to another team), Wagner (2 mil to another team) and Jones (1.4 mil to another team)... that's a total of 22.6 mil in outgoing salary. 125% of that is 28.2. Davis makes 27. Done deal.

    This is pretty typical of massive trades like this. If for whatever reason the Lakers are incapable of getting teams to take on Bonga/Wagner/Jones along with some 2nd rounders... this deal just gets delayed until the 30th. In which case, the only real issue is that it f***s up some Summer League rosters (kinda like Wiggins playing Summer League for the Cavs, because they couldn't officially make the trade yet).

    TLDR: This Laker salary cap s*** is much ado about nothing. You should fully expect them to sign a 3rd star for 32 mil and then complete the trade after
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    KareemtheGreat33, Jun 24, 2019
    #6638
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  19. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    Goddamn.
     
    ZenMaster, Jun 24, 2019
    #6639
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  20. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    "Goddamn" good? You OK with that Sparky?
     
    LTLakerFan, Jun 24, 2019
    #6640
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