D'Angelo Russell Discussion: Adopting A Professional Attitude

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by The Original 81, Jun 25, 2015.

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  1. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

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    I still believe that Lonzo and DAR would work well together as the two guards. I think we traded him because he helped make the salary dump work and because he lost a lot of flavor in the locker room after the whole snitch gate thing (which was just stupid to begin with anyways).
     
    alam1108, Jan 8, 2019
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  2. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    he caused his own problems, but he didn't have continuous veteran leadership he was willing to follow or a great start with a teaching coach

    [​IMG]

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    He needed a new start. I'm glad he got one. He wasn't going to ever get a fair shake here. Would have been nice if he hadn't shot his value to hell though so we could have gotten a little more value for our suffering his pick came with.
     
    sirronstuff, Jan 8, 2019
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  3. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    I read some Bk net fan forum and they seem to have same complaint about him taking vet offers to help him...i.e. Demarre Carrol offered to train with him and he didnt take him up on it....his game is the same IMO, if he doesn't get his O going early he seems to give up or if he gets hot early he pretty much disappears after the hot start.
     
    Khmrp, Jan 9, 2019
    #10543
  4. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    When I look at his stats, they don't scream huge improvement. His shot attempts are at an all time high, but is that pace based? His assists are slightly up, but everything else is pretty close to the norm. Not poo-ing on his progress since I don't watch him play, but the numbers so far for the season don't scream anything hugely different than the rest of his career.

    DAR.png


    shooting percentages are all slightly up. Rebounds and blocks slightly down. Assists up. Nothing earth shattering, but if he continued this miniscule trend of improvement, I would definitely say he has a chance to be an all star in 8-10 years.
     
    sirronstuff, Jan 9, 2019
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  5. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    so, is it better or worse that he's kicking all of our youth's a**** without having improved after we used him in a fruitless salary dump?

    :Fishwink:
     
    abeer3, Jan 9, 2019
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  6. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    They don't take Moz without him probably and we got the Kuzma pick allowing and taking Hart with our own pick. I'll take all three outcomes. Moz would have been a female dog to unload later.

    Fruitless?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    LTLakerFan, Jan 9, 2019
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  7. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Nice bounce back.
     
    trodgers, Jan 9, 2019
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  8. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    .... and in that money mix the cap space to sign LBJ.

    :KobeConfused:
     
    LTLakerFan, Jan 9, 2019
    #10548
  9. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Got a link?
     
    trodgers, Jan 9, 2019
    #10549
  10. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    “D’Angelo Russell — A+ While the #Nets were struggling mightily to start things off, D-Lo remained as cool as the ice in his veins. He was the one constant through all four quarters and has been making a really compelling All Star case.”

    Nets Twitter
     
    trodgers, Jan 9, 2019
    #10550
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  11. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Nice! Hope he gets in; he has such a bright future ahead of him.
     
    LaVarBallsDad, Jan 9, 2019
    #10551
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  12. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    we're putting an awful lot of semi-related occurrences onto that trade to help us feel better. i've outlined how lebron could still be here (we completely wasted upwards of 20 million last summer, which is more than moz makes).

    anyway, i was simply interested in the point that people are conceding that he's playing well and now falling back on limited improvement as the current condemnation. which would mean that he was good when we traded him, but everyone said that he wasn't at that point.

    headscratcher indeed.
     
    abeer3, Jan 10, 2019
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  13. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Still, "marginal improvement" or "not much better" seems to miss everything:

    The knock on my "per36" stats was that he wasn't playing enough minutes.
    ...he's playing more minutes and averaging ridiculous per36 numbers: 22.3 points (career high), 7.7 assists (career high), 4.0 rebounds, 1.4 steals.

    His per100 possession stats are also at all time highs: 30.3 points, 10.4 dimes. I'll just throw this out there: Chris Paul's per100 are 23.5 and 12.1. Curry's are 40/8.

    His gross stats are at an all time high: 3 PPG over his career average, 2 assists over his career average, and his turnovers are down. In fact, since last year, his assist rate has increase from 9.8 to 10.4 per 100 possessions while his turnovers have decreased from 5.8 to 4.9 (ast/to rate of 1.7 to 2.1).

    If you like advanced stats, he's at a career best in PER, TS%, OWS, DWS, WS, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, ORtg, eFG%, and VORP. FYI: that's literally every advance stat that BKREF tracks except DRtg (he's 1 point off his career best).

    If Lonzo Ball had improved in literally 95% of indicators, how would fans be feeling about his development?
     
    trodgers, Jan 10, 2019
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  14. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Good stuff, Trodgers.
     
    LaVarBallsDad, Jan 10, 2019
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  15. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    True but DAR's in his contract 4th year and how's his D in comparison and let's revisit Zo in 2 more years for fair overall comparison.
     
    LTLakerFan, Jan 10, 2019
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  16. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    His defense is better by statistics, by the eye test, and by the coach’s take. He’s not a good defender, but he’s nowhere near the liability he was.

    What do you think it means to say that it’s a contract year? Do you know what impact a contract year has on a player’s performance?

    Let me switch to my laptop for this.
     
    trodgers, Jan 10, 2019
    #10556
  17. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Here's a quick(ish) response:

    Russell improved his points, assists, rebounds, steals, blocks, and eFG% from his rookie to his second year. He started year 3 with a 12-game stretch averaging 20.9 points, 5.7 assists, 4.7 rebounds, on 46% FGs. Then he was injured, but he returned and posted numbers that were overall improved from year 2 though nowhere near as good as where he was trending. Then he came out in year four and has improved in essentially every metric.

    Possible conclusions:
    He's improving.
    He's just doing well in a contract year.

    Why believe one rather than the other? First, you could reread what I just wrote. He was arguably even better prior to that knee injury than he was over the course of last season, and he's even better this year. Second, what happens to players in contract years? They don't systematically overperform. Read the data: https://scholarship.claremont.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1780&context=cmc_theses
     
    trodgers, Jan 10, 2019
    #10557
  18. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    So what?
     
    trodgers, Jan 10, 2019
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  19. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    just fans posting on the Nets forum on realgm. They mentioned carroll offered his training to any young players willing to come, Dlo did not
     
    Khmrp, Jan 10, 2019
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  20. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Wonder if their views have changed at all. Hint: yes :)
     
    trodgers, Jan 10, 2019
    #10560
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