Meow....throwing such a hissy fit cause I'm talking smack about your boy, Clay. Pardon me for being pro-Laker on a Lakers fan site....this f***ing guy?! You don't know much of my posting history, yet you classify me as a Laker homer...then later comment about how I complained about the mozdeng signing...so not as homerish as before? Which is it? I'm confused. Rationally speaking, one can safely assume you're a Thunder homer for how you continuously post in this thread and know quite about their history. Yet for some reason, you ignore that money was the deciding factor in all of OKC's moves. OKC was cheap, so they lost Harden....a key member to a Finals team....and they haven't been there since. Harden said as much. Take the name recognition out of the equation. You got a 4 year guaranteed deal and trade it for essentially an expiring deal...most teams see that as a salary dump. George was just icing on the cake, but Presti was allowed to tell Russ that he brought in help to compete for a title all while dumping salary for Bennett. Trading for Melo had similar duplicity in that they were getting off McDermott that was going to hit free agency as a RFA. So they got another namer to convince Russ with even though it looked like a bad fit...and that was the narrative by the majority. I still think Melo is ill-fitting there. But the point is they brought "help" for Russ and convinced him to sign that extension. If George walks, it was a risk worth taking cause they got their man. Now that they got their man, there's no urgency to trade Paul for another star with committed salary (ie Blake). Clay is a schemer when it comes to money, but you got way too much condensation on your Thundercat glasses to see it. Too rational for you? How about a cute gif instead?
Friendly reminder: Remember to keep the discussion about eachother’s points, and not to make it personal
edit- I wrote a wall of text but in a twist Vash did a better job than me with less words (only playing Vash). By the way comparing Harden to Kuzma is just... incorrect. It's revisionist history in the opposite spectrum to what you are saying in regards to the Thunder paying him. Harden was the 3rd overall pick in the draft. His exponential growth since coming off the bench is not nearly as surprising as it would be for Kuzma, the 27th pick in the draft. If Kuzma were to get his own team and take off into an MVP candidate, he would be the lowest draft pick since Moses Malone (ABA 1974 draft 3rd round). Rose tinted glasses is thinking that George will sign here because it's LA and he loves it here. It's not rose tinted to rationally look at the Thunder's spending history and be skeptical that they'll pay for this team. The Thunder right now are 30-22 in the 5th seed just hardly better than the Blazers. Is that enough to convince their owner to pay the huge bill that's coming? I'm certainly skeptical. Let's see if he proves me wrong, but that doesn't mean I'm a biased Laker fan for wondering. I'm a biased Laker fan for thinking that playing for the Lakers is better than playing for the Clippers, but that's a separate subject.
quick thoughts: -i DO think the thunder were a bit cheap in letting harden go. they offered sub max as an extension when it was clear he'd get multiple max offers if he got to FA. BUT he did kind of push his way out according to some reports. and considering his MVP status is largely based on historically bizarre treatment from officials, i'd say it was hard to foresee that kind of growth. i thought he'd do what oladipo is doing in indy, not, like, twice that! -i DO NOT think passing on griffin for george means anything regarding intentions to pay george. -i think the thunder plan on keeping adams, westbrook, and george. if melo opts in, i think they look to move him (deng for melo!), but again, i imagine they offer him enough cash to consider foregoing his last big money season. -i agree there's no way george walks because they don't offer him enough money. -finally, i don't think they're going to be good enough even if they do keep george, so there will be a fire sale there eventually.
I think Paul George will lead OKC in scoring average from here on out. But even then, won't be enough to push them past 2nd round of the playoffs and would eventually decide to sign with us starting the domino effect of some more decent to great players signing. Wait, this is the Optimism Thread right?
Sorry I haven’t clarified my arguement prorperly; I brought Kuzma into it because he averages similar numbers to Harden during his time at OKC and is something like our 6th man. Not because they are comparable draft picks or players in any other way. We could use the example with JC or Randle or even DLo. My only point was, it was hard to see him grow from his position then to this offensive juggernaut mvp candidate. I don’t know whether the Thunder will pay for the team or not, I am almost certain they will give George the max, whether he takes it is up to him. I want to clarify that what I said was irrational is the claim that the thunder were being cheap by not trading George for Blake. I’m unsure how that arguement makes sense when George is the better player, you don’t trade him for Blake regardless of contract situations. I’m biased in thinking playing for the Lakers is the best gig in sport!
Harden had already this kind of refs treatment as a 6th man in OKC though . I remembered it drove me nuts in the series we lost 4-1 in 2012. He sure wanted a bigger role , it wasn't going to happen with Russ and KD , and OKC simplified his departure by choosing Ibaka over him
LOL you crack me up with the gifs and calls like thundercat! Clay isn’t my boy but I think Presti runs a pretty tight ship, trying to pay fair value for assets and not allowing players to leave without getting something in return when possible reminds me of the way the spurs run their organisation. I admire the thunder as a small market team with how they develop players and how their fans get behind the team. The young guys who played for them always showed a lot of respect for kobe which was endearing. But then Durant did the worst move of all time and joined a 73 win team he was leading 3-1 in the WCF the year before. That totally ruined the league’s competitiveness for me. So I’m hanging out for any team to beat them. I just happen to think the thunder had the best shot before Roberson went down. Now I’m rooting for Houston to do that. I’m not a fan of these teams, I watch each laker game And am happy to see our young guys develop into something great. Winning is cyclical and these last years has been our down cycle, but there isn’t really much to post and I don’t like posting negatively with all the losing. I also know a fair bit of history about most of the western conference teams. Regarding the Harden extension, they offered 2m below his max per year. I understand that’s a good chunk of change, but it’s also pretty clear Harden wanted an expanded role and that was a huge factor in his decision. Onto your next point, I’m really not sure how you can take the name recognition out of the equation. They traded Oladipo of last year (decent player) plus Sabonis for Paul George. The same guy everyone is raving about to save our franchise and begin the path towards a next championship. Then they had a chance to turn Kanter and McDermott into 2 years of Melo effectively - no way anyone can argue getting rid of a bum like McDermott is them being cheap. Any time you trade for a better player and save money, you’re doing something right... that’s good management. I’m also not ashamed to admit they put together a hell of a team, when their starting 5 plays a game they are undefeated and are the second best performing team since Dec 1st record wise after the warriors. At one point they had a top 5 defence and offence for a 10-15 odd games before Roberson went down. I suppose we just see things differently. I have no trouble appreciating other organisations, at the end of the day I support the lakers and will continue through good and bad.
I understand your point, I just don't see how thinking the cheapness of the Thunder or the idea that they may have passed on Griffin has anything to do with having Laker color glasses on. I could see the Thunder passing on Griffin for financial reasons, why not? The only thing this tells me is that Oklahoma feels fairly confident about George. It could be a massive mistake though if George ends up leaving. It would be precisely the move that the Lakers are still getting heat for even though those decision makers aren't around anymore.
it means they're confident they're keeping george. i agree with svtzr that it's pretty optimistic/unrealistic to take it to mean they'll be too cheap to pay paul george. and i'm being charitable there.
We just having a little fun talking smack...stop trippin Barn...oh...Chief, what are you doing here? Bu..but, he started it! @svtzr On one hand you don't like posting negatively during these losing times, yet you posted negatively about my overtly positive "purple and gold glasses". Not very rational, is it? Hey at least my gifs make you laugh, so there's that. Likewise you crack me up as well...thanks for giving me a good laugh at calling OKC "good management". Going to the Finals, only to prematurely dismantle it (nothing to do with being cheap of course) and never heading back to the Finals again. Having your MVP bail on you and then creating a faux twitter to bash the organization, their coaching and his chances of ever winning there. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here...but we both cracked each other up, so it was a good time.
Turning down Ginger Spice for PG was a shockingly bad decision for OKC. Forget the home town boy angle. Griff is locked in for what, 4-5 years? PG is gone for zip zilch nada. Melo is gone too. Next year they are back to triple double Russ and the three stooges.
I didn’t even hear about PG dropping 43 until I read it here. That’s first page news on ESPN if he’s a Laker. Do it mitch.
I don’t take anything too seriously and I’m sure you don’t either. If anything came off as too personal on what I said, I apologise - didn’t mean it to, sometimes it’s hard to have context over the internet. And regarding the purple and gold glasses, nothing wrong with that, we’re all different kinds of fans. To clarify my point, I meant I don’t like constantly posting negative stuff about our young players and all the losing we’ve gone through over the last few seasons. After a while you just accept they’re young in a very tough western conference and need to grow from the good and the bad. Edit: also I think I touched upon this before but OKC were really unlucky not to be back in the finals, one year pat bev injures Westbrook, one year Ibaka is our for SA, one year Durant is out with a bad foot. The year durant choked 3-1 lead and left for GSW straight after. Any one of these years they were a legit contender to win it all, sometimes you just need to be a little lucky and they weren’t. Would of having Harden helped in those times? Sure but he wouldn’t of settled for being a 6th man anymore. But if they had health chances are they’re back in the finals at least once. It’s hard to say they dismantled their team when they have one of the best winning records playoffs and regular season since moving to OKC of any team in the league. I can’t blame them too much for losing Harden or Durant, it’s like blaming us when we lost Shaq, things fall apart sometimes.
Yeah you’re right haha! It’s more a real disgust at the Warriors and happy if any team can knock them off. Don’t care who it is, as long as Durant doesn’t cake walk to 3 or 4 rings and than new age yuppies start arguing how he is better than Kobe. Really not interested in hearing that bull!
but you want to hear stat nerds open the door on a harden/kobe debate? at least durant's really, really talented. harden's a charlatan, imo. he's about to get the mvp...whilst being the second most valuable player on his own team.
