They need to held accountable for that. All summer long several of us questioned this and pointed out that the new plan was the old plan only to be shut down as being negative. The vast majority of our concerns seem to be playing out.
To be fair, your assumption here here that George has said he’s staying is just that, as he hasn’t actually said that. Those that believe he will leave have just as much proof of that, he’s said very little other than the diplomatic comments we’d expect. LeBron has also never said anything about LA, or whether he needs to bring specific players with him to join our team, all assumptions. Again, to be fair, we are 3 games into preseason, and our only player that has a career as a consistent scorer/threat, Lopez, hasn’t even played a game yet. Yeah, we look bad, but I think game 3 of preseason is a little bit too early to say our 2018 plan is failed and we are doomed.
First of all, I gotta say that I dig the passion that Laker fans have in wanting to turn this ship around. Whether its new FO or old, they all have to be put under the lens of scrutiny. So again, I am not attempting to muffle anybody here that has a difference of opinion than mine...I just want to understand and possibly even assemble a "plan" that appeases the masses. In terms of Kuzma, BK had the 27th, we had the 28th and they clearly had a need for frontline help. They drafted a center, Jarrett Allen, at pick 22 and traded for Moz along with DLo. Of course they were trying to cover their bases with the loss of Lopez in doing that. But lets say the deal doesn't go down. Then at 22 they could go for Kuz. If not there, they go for Kuz at 27. Remember, it seems like he came out of the blue, but going back to mock drafts and what the pundits projected as rise/falls in draft stock, Kuz leaped out of the 2nd round and was projected to go mid 1st by more than a few draft gurus. Add to that speculation that the Nets don't have a definitive 3-4 starting player on their roster. That is why they went out and threw all the money they could at Otto Porter. The Wiz matched. Then they traded for Carroll along with draft picks in what was perceived at the time as a tax dump for Toronto. But in fact, the Nets were gunning for a rotation 3/4 player seeing how those draft protections are pretty significant (Toronto put top 14 protection through 2023 on that 1st round pick they traded to BK). Then they go deal with Portland for Crabbe. No draft picks were attached. They just were looking for their starting 3/4 guy in case Carroll wasn't it. So this perception that we could have drafted Kuz, while still keeping DLo seems like a farce based off of what the Nets did in the offseason. Those moves were their primary source of transactions. In terms of DLo...he's pegged by some as the next Harden. We all know he can score in bunches and he's got more of a role as a SG compared to a PG. So lets look at the Harden similarity. His best season was last year with ball-in hand as a scoring PG. With Ball here, that wouldn't be the case, unless you want Ball coming off screens and shooting that eccentric jumper. So then Ball would be the guy that controls the rock with DLo coming off picks to catch and shoot. Would DLo be okay with that? Would he even embrace such a role? Who's the unspoken leader/floor general of that group? (ie Wall over Beal, Dame over McCollum, Curry over Klay, etc.) Then lets take a closer look at this scoring dynamo. Harden came on the scene in 2009 and scored just a shade under 10 points per. Meanwhile DLo did better at around 13 pts per in his rookie campaign. Harden then broke through into double digits for his sophomore year scoring 12 pts per, while DLo scored just over 15 pts per. Now take into account today's game is a faster pace than Harden's time and point inflation is encouraged now more than it was during yesteryear. Add to that, Harden was on a team with Russ and KD so the offense had to be stretched while DLo didn't have those type of scorers demanding the rock on his teams. For those saying that we prematurely traded DLo because he could have been the next best thing...I feel that maybe you guys are a bit premature in anointing him the next best scoring dynamo in the backcourt. Finally lets move to the plan and why is it so heavily scrutinized. If we open up cap space, that means we move players on the roster now and some of those young players used in getting rid of bad contracts were given up on too soon, since they could have competed once the Dubs dissipated. But let me ask you...whats the guarantee? Klay recently alluded to giving GS a hometown discount when he's up for an extension. We've already seen Durantulame do the same. Then lets look at our young guys...again, whats the guarantee they are the next best thing over the Greek Freak, KAT, Porz, etc. We know the talent the players of the 2018 free agent pool have, but in terms of the players BI and Zo could become...that's a relative unknown. So why eliminate the possibility of adding those players next summer in order to groom a young roster that shows no guarantee of being future title contenders. Its wishful thinking to have 1 superstar, let alone 2 stars come join the roster next summer....yet some of you are hoping we can groom our youth into a stud super team in the future...what kind of wishful thinking plan is that? Those that don't like putting all their eggs in one basket, when it comes to free agency, I still see plenty of youth on the roster, so its not like the FO just shipped our entire future out in hopes of a quick fix next summer. Add to that there is no more squabbling up top with ownership and potential free agents have taken notice with credible sources (Woj, Shams, Windy) stating that George and LaBron are in play for us next summer (ie also see tampering charges). Also there is no more Kobe element. It is possible free agents did not want to come here after D'antoni drove Kobe prematurely into his grave. How can you team up and be successful with Kobe's corpse? I notice that some fans are complaining about the 2018 plan because they want to develop the youth...yet there are many in that same camp that state this young core does not have it after 3 preseason games...so what would you have the FO do...ship them out for star players? What team is going to agree to that? Just look to Indy to see how willing teams are in assisting us in that manner. The same patience that was allotted the previous regime should also be given to the new one...only their plan isn't years from happening. If it were up to them, they would have George on the roster right now with a fellow superstar linking up next summer. The powers that be, did not allow that to happen, so they regrouped and still developed a plan with a similar endgame. I believe this FO will deliver on that plan. Till there's someone that can come up with a better plan, this one sounds good enough for me. #TurnOfTheTide
i don't have time to address the above (suffice it to say, i'm totally unmoved by the convoluted attempt to tie kuzma to the russell trade), but: man, he's basically said that unless something bad happens, he's staying there. you can't get closer to a commitment than that while still being a FA. crickets is in reference to the 2018 plan that everyone was certain was brilliant six weeks ago. paul george was in the bag, it was just a question of who else was joining him. that's pretty close to dead, and nobody wants to talk about it. instead, we just shifted the discussion to developing the youth, when, ironically, the conversation started because we traded our best young player away for cap space.
There goes the Kuzma discourse; LOL. As probably one of the only people who wanted Russell instead of Okafor on this site, I'm ready to move on from the Russell trade; can we all move on, please? Or at least take this to the D'Angelo Russell thread, please. Thanks.
@abeer3 Its funny...I do have the time to address the above (and suffice it to say that I'm totally moved in attempting to clarify my convoluted post). Let's say BK does not trade for DLo/Moz. They retain Brook Lopez. They retain the 27th pick and still have the 22nd pick. They took a center at 22 AFTER they traded Lopez. Maybe they pick Kuz at 22 and if not they got the 27th pick to do so. Even at pick 57 they drafted a forward. They targeted Porter with a boatload of money. Wiz matched. They then traded for Carroll and Crabbe. All these dudes are forwards. Are you getting it yet? Or is it still convoluted for you? Haha. In terms of DLo vs Brook. Between the ears...come'n, no question its the big fella. In terms of point projection this next season based off of previous years...It again goes to the big fella. Oh he's soft like Zo and BI for not playing in the preseason and he's out with an injured back which forecasts things to come.....Westbrook played for 1/2 of 1 quarter in the preseason while LaBron hasn't suited up yet. Just like SL, Philly shut down Fultz and Embiid been sitting. Meanwhile Batum out for about 3 months and possibly more, Exum and Seth Curry possibly lost for the season or a good portion of it. We're building chemistry during camp/practice, so why risk anything in preseason games that won't count for s***? Brook's been in the league 9 seasons. Played in 72 or more in 7 of those seasons. Played in all 82 games his 1st 3 seasons. In 2011 it can be said that he was shut down during the Dwightmare rumors. So now its inevitable he goes down to an injury??? Speaking of which, from the looks of your post, I must have missed the news that George inked an extension with the Thunder....athletes say the damnedest things...
if we're going to start insulting intelligence, this won't end well for you. you can waste another 2000 words, but no evidence you present will be sufficient to believe that the guy they passed on at 22 would have been taken if only they hadn't made a separate trade that involved moving a center for a center. i'm sort of speechless at the suggestion. our own gm called the deal a salary dump (whoops!) right after it occurred. the merits of lopez vs. russell isn't a thing. this wasn't known as the russell for lopez trade, it was the russell for cap space trade. if it ends up being known as the russell for lopez deal, we got lucky--it wasn't by design. lol, actually dwight said a lot less than george, and it was why i was worried. had dwight said what george said back when he was here, i would have been certain we were keeping him. also, equating dwight howard and paul george? just not even close to the same personalities there. and it just underscores the larger point: cap space 2018 is a bag of magic beans, the likes of which we've purchased before and wished we had a refund.
There's an old phrase called killing two birds with one stone. I always found it weird and the saying must be really old if they're still using stones to kill birds, but it holds true here. Just because it's true that it was a salary dump of Mozgov, doesn't make Russell vs. Lopez any less relevant at all. In fact, Lopez is by all objectivity a better basketball player than Russell. The only thing Russell has over Lopez is the potential to become better than Lopez one day, but Lopez is a former All-Star, a reinvented Center, and a very solid player. By the way, here's the direct quote from Pelinka where he points out first that Lopez is a really good player then points out that this trade was for cap space. I understand you don't like the trade, but you're making sure the terms fit your argument. Both things can be true: Lopez is good and was a good value and we were able to dump salary.
@abeer3 Didn't intend to insult your intelligence. Just found it peculiar that you can describe my post as convoluted, when you don't have the time to really discuss as to why. Silly me, I thought this was a discussion forum. Since you're pressed for time, I was intending to be considerate in writing an abridged post for you. However you took it as me insulting your intelligence. No I wouldn't be doing that, however I will say you can't count cause my post wasn't nearly 2000 words long. So seeing how I'm discussing with someone that works in hyperbole, your countering points towards the 2018 plan are starting to make much more sense to me. That being said I leave you with definitive interest on the Nets part towards Mr. Kuzma. Considering he was at worst projected as a high 2nd rounder and with BK owning the 22, 27 and 57 picks, it's a good thing we sprung at him when we did otherwise he would be thanking the Nets in person right now.
LOL. Scoreboard for those saying we had a short window of opportunity to pull off this kill multiple Birds with one trade scenario. Similar likely to the short window of opportunity we had to hire Luke before some other team did. Props to Mitch and Jim and props to Magic and Rob for pulling the triggers.
The thing about him is that his scoring isn’t coming across as a fluke or hot streak. More just skillful play. Lakerfilmroom’s latest podcast goes in depth on it. I’ll try to post it some point after I get back home. An interesting nugget is that Kuzma apparently dominated his scrimmages so much that many scouts thought it was a fluke.
After reading all the evidence posted by @vasashi17 , I do think there was a great chance (ie 60%+) that Brooklyn would have snatched up Kuzma with their #22 or #27 pick. As for Kuzma vs DLO, I think the latter is a better player right now, especially given their age, but as a Robin next to Ball, Kuzma is much more valuable. I don't think it's even close if we're comparing the tandem.
