That's what having a player like Ingram and George come in to have someone to go to in the half court like Showtimw did with Kareem. But, the effect of Lonzo's style of passing is that it gets everyone involved in the half court set, so he may not get the initial assist, but it gets everyone to move the ball and get open looks, instead of the traditional pick and roll sets.
@LakersFilmRoom pointed this out during the first game - On Thomas Bryant's first 3-point shot. He got open when Lonzo cut to the basket and drew two defenders. That's what you'll see in half-court. Off-ball cutting, moving, slashing, directing, making the extra pass, etc. In transition, admittedly, he's special.
trodgers, I really hope you'll stick around, genuinely do, the site is better for it. I come here for an escape from real life though, because real life is s***, to talk basketball and movies and stuff and have fun. I don't need to be told I need to stop enjoying watching our #2 pick play, or be rooting for him, or that I should only speak about him in certain ways or I'm being a "turn off" and a detriment to the fanbase. That is beyond ridiculous. And really, a Lonzo Hype Poll thread? You're better than that. I should be able to talk about Lonzo any way I want, same as you should any way you want, and I'm sorry you felt persecuted for doing so. I'd imagine it's because you're telling people they're wrong if they think he's good, the same as they're telling you you're wrong if you don't. This has sunk into some petty stuff though, and that's a real shame. I hope once things cool down things get back on track, and that you're still around, and we're all rooting for the Lakers together. I'm still bummed about the Russ trade as well, believe me, and I know Ball has a long way to go to live up to what's been placed on him, and I don't put a lot of stock in summer league. This season will tell us more of what we need to know, patience will need to be exercised. I'd suggest ignoring a couple of silly over the top posters when it comes to Ball rather than giving in to them though.
Why not? How is this site not for you? No one is a tight wad here. You aren't being threaten to be banned every other time you post? Oh wait, that is you. Nevermind. Carry on. And Lonzo Ball is the next Jason Kidd. There, I said it. What? What? Whatta gonna do now? Compare him to Laron Profit? I dare you, go ahead.
I mentioned after the game yesterday that I thought Ball played really well and it was exciting to see him in transition and his intangible quality of getting the ball to where it needs to be as a great positive. My worry is, if he becomes a better version of his current self, then he relies on the players around him to win. Sure he is going to make them better but at the end of the day, without multiple all stars around him he ain't winning. The comparisons to Kidd are pretty spot on in a poor man's version without the defence. Kidd in his prime topped out at a 17pt/10ast/8rb kind of player with all time defence for his position. I don't know if that's replicatable. I look at Nash as an example to what I'd hope Ball works towards. Nash had the same ability Ball will have in transition and moving the ball to the right place. However Nash also shot extremely well, could get in the lane to probe or finish at the basket to a high level and lastly he played the PnR amazingly well which allowed him to be good in the half court. At the moment I'm seeing a player that projects out to a Odom like impact rather than a transcendent MVP player. He'll do a little of everything and probably be elite in assistingnand running the fast break but he may only be the 3rd best player on a championship team. So when I say bust potential, I think as a 2nd overall pick we are hoping for a superstar and we might end up with a good rotational player instead. Lastly, before I get flamed, I do think Ball has the potential to be a star, but he needs to improve in a lot of different areas.
Nobody is going to flame you, I don't know why people are expecting that if they give their opinions on Ball around here. I think a lot of what you said is true, and I'm a big fan of Ball. Where I would probably disagree is with the 2nd overall pick you probably shouldn't expect a superstar player. All-Star, sure, reasonable. Superstars tend to be the #1 pick, or actually a lot of the time a player nobody expected (for whatever reason) to be a superstar at all and was taken outside the top 3. Westbrook was taken 4th, Lillard 6th, George 10th, CP3 4th to give a few examples. As for Ball, I don't think you're wrong with shooting for Nash being a good idea, but he is 3 inches taller and more athletic, so he could be a better defender, and he has the tools to get to the hoop better. I think we're placing limitations on him too soon though, based on what he can't do well right NOW. We have to remember he's 19, and hasn't played a single NBA game. Jud said after yesterday's film that they like how he plays, but they want him to look to score a little more himself and not pass up those easy looks. So yeah, he does that now, bit of course the coaches are going to get him in the film room and show him the easy layups he's passing up, and of course he can fix that. That's all I'm saying, yes he has a lot of room to improve, but he also has a lot of time to do so. He's got to get his NBA body same as Ingram does and we can see he slowly is, but the tools are there. I don't think we can project him as Kidd or Nash yet of course, but I also don't think we need to put the cap of Odom on him either, way, way too early. For now I'm really enjoying the way he plays the game, his passing is contagious, he gets players running down court immediately after a rebound as they know they will be rewarded by him, and he doesn't seem to care about his stats as much as the win. He can bring about a change in culture with his style, and if he does become a player others want to play with, then those multiple all-stars he could need to win might come here so he can make their lives easier. I think with what we needed, he was the right pick at #2. IMO we didn't have as big a need for the things that Tatum and Jackson bring, scorers aren't as hard to find as players that play like Ball.
Well that's been the case with any player right? Not even superstars can win without the help of multiple all stars surrounding their team. Seems like the norm nowadays. I think every Laker fan is looking for the next Kobe. We were spoiled the last 20 years with his style of Kobe ball, it's a line that seems to be need to be met. Zo is not that type of player and Magic is looking to shift the culture of the Lakers away from that reliance on 1 or 2 players, and move to a team oriented trusting style of offense. Although Lonzo might not be a volume scorer we want him to be, he is an integral part of the vision that Magic has. His skills might not constitute what a "star" is today, but his ability to move the ball and control the pace of he offense is definitely a unique and rare quality you don't find in players. Like I said before, it will take time for the other players to adjust to this team oriented unselfish brand of basketball, but once the culture and chemistry starts to gel, you will see why Lonzo is so crucial to the culture shift.
I feel the same way LTLakerFan. This is directed at trodgers... I had been on CL since 2008 and switched over here when this site came about. trodgers, I appreciate your informative posts and I have a ton or respect for you. trodgers, if you are reading this... I took a break for about a year around this time in 2016 because I was dealing with things at work and was tired of hearing about the ineptness of the front office on this forum. Some of criticism from people on the forum was definitely warranted but I probably was a little sensitive because of the things I was going through at work. Funny how life colors our perspectives in the present. I started reading the forum again in January and then started posting again before the draft. A break might be a good thing but come back soon. I enjoy reading your perspective. There are some members that I respect a ton and you are one of them.
I didn't get to watch the first two games. Sounds like Ball was underwhelming in game 1, and showed flashes of what we think he can become in game 2 as a 19 year old rookie. We can probably expect this all season long. He's skinny and looks weak in the pictures I see, so he has s lot of growth potential. Anyone creating an accurate NBA comparison after 2 Summer League games is shooting in the dark. How many players have we had that shined in SL only to stink it up once the real games started? I hope all the dug in strong opinions can take a back seat. @trodgers has been a tremendous content contributor to this site for years, and is a highly valued member and a person I consider a friend. Like many fans that invest personal time and energy into the team and community, it can be easy to get disillusioned from time to time with decisions made you don't agree with. If anyone has earned the right on this site to have strong opinions and has proven to back it up with data, it's @trodgers He gets at a minimum 10 irrational post passes from me before I'd even feel the need to rebut. Even then I might not really care, because he's the bomb. If you leave T, hopefully some time away will find you refreshed with a renewed perspective. We don't want you to go, and you are highly valued here. I've had time away due to an odd work schedule and I'm on the other side of the world. The relative craziness has been easier to weather without regular access. Sports bring communities together people. They should not tear them apart. This is a big family, and we don't treat valued family members this way. We just don't. For the more recently adopted members of the family, please mix in a chill pill and extend some grace to a highly respected senior member. Should you earn that status, I'll defend you the same way. This site is great in part because of members like @trodgers PERIOD #respect
