Julius Randle Discussion: MIP

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by therealdeal, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    I see randle as empty stat guy, early zbo career, bigs #s but not much team success
     
  2. KB24

    KB24 Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't really care what Randle did in the preseason.

    I will start to count now. One thing that is sadly showing is that he still isn't comfortable or effective shooting midrange Js.
     
  3. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    to be an empty stat guy, you have to put up stats! randle rebounds (or at least, used to). that's...about it.

    and i'm still less concerned about his jumper than i am his court awareness. just so little progress there, and it's more important, imo. players have improved jumpers, and players have learned to be effective without them. but i'm not sure i've seen players do well who show deficits in "feel for the game". per usual, i'm holding out hope that this year it's about adapting to a new system, and that time and experience can mitigate some of these problems. but how to move off the ball, position yourself on screens, see ball and man on defense...ingram and russell could both do these sorts of things right out of the box.
     
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  4. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    I can't imagine what the problem is with him getting close enough in the correct positions for screens. Not rocket science even for him.
     
  5. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    It's strange for someone known around the team as a tireless worker that he has made so little progress in areas that need work.

    I still find value in his tremendous physical abilities and I don't underestimate how hard he is to guard in the open court, but that can't be all he does. He has to continue to grow. He's still very young. Luke has a lot of time to work.
     
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  6. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    I don't get the argument that he has regressed. I see immediate improvement in 3 areas.
    - Finishing with right hand
    - Finishing without bullying/fouling (much better body control)
    - Passing out of fast breaks

    And yes, he still seems to struggle in the following areas.
    - Jumpshot
    - Setting screens
    - Fundamentals/footwork
    - Overall awareness/positioning

    He's not a natural like Ingram/Russell so I'm not sure if it's even fair to compare. He simply doesn't have the same instincts so it will take longer. He's just got to keep working on his weaknesses. I think it's only fair to give him another year or two. Then we can judge if he has plateaued. I still think his upside is as high as anyone on this team.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  7. Juronimo

    Juronimo - Lakers Starter -

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    This is effectively his second year. If he doesn't show any growth this season then you can worry.
     
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  8. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    That's just offensively, defensively he:

    Great at tracking down rebounds, but...

    - Does a terrible job of boxing out.
    - Usually late to rotations or doesn't know who to rotate to.
    - Not a really great one on one defender.

    I keep saying this, but Randle's effort level when he's not involved offensively is worrisome. Yes, he's good with pushing the force

    For example, although BI is better offensively running point, he's still active when he's not. Defending, cutting and getting open looks, that's the type of effort level Julius needs to have.

    If he doesn't improve his mental game, I think his ceiling will be lower than we thought.

    One more note, although I trust Luke, no more Randle at Center. He's not Draymond.
     
  9. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    "Fundamentals/footwork" and "overall awareness/positioning" was directed at both his offensive and defensive game.

    I agree with what you're saying --- Julius has his limitations and weaknesses. But he's still 21. Let's not forget that he's the best rebounding PF in the league, and perhaps the best PF at leading a break. And I've read that he's our best 1-on-1 player in practices. Even if he turns out to be average at everything else, he's still a valuable asset to any team. With his work ethic, I cannot envision a scenario where he doesn't pan out. Did I mention he's still 21?

    And the comparisons don't really make any sense. Russell and Ingram are #2 picks for a reason. They're expected to become stars and help our team almost immediately. It's not fair to judge Julius by the same standard.

    As far as Nance goes, yes, he is a better team player right now, but that still doesn't make Julius less valuable. They both bring a different dynamic to the game. I'm just excited we have a promising duo at the 4 spot.

    Let's not take these plays for granted...

     
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  10. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Rebounds are an area that does impact the game positively. In fact, a rebound is one of the most important stats in systems that model winning; it's not as important as FGM, but it's important. So Julius does contribute. It's just very one-dimensional.
     
  11. GoldenKnight

    GoldenKnight - Rookie -

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    I'm a believer in Randle. To me, he showed improvement in his composure when going up attacking the rim, seems to not let go of the ball as quickly as before which helps him with a softer touch. He has been running the ball decently and has a good eye for the open man when he does so. Defensively of course he can always improve. This season could make or break his starting spot competing with Nance, but I see him excelling well over the course of the season.
     
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  12. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    Although I'm not trying to discredit Randle for being in the top 10 in rebounds last year, he had to make up for Roy.

    Most of his rebounding efforts are chasing down balls instead of like you said, positioning. For as many boards he gets, he often loses out to high effort guys who out work him.

    I'm not concerned about his talent or work ethic, he definitely has that, but I'm concerned with his work effort on the court. It's quite often offense driven, where his defense picks up only if the offensive side is going.

    This really should be his breakout season, and like I said, the real area of improvement I'm looking for in him is his ability to improve himself.
     
  13. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    Your evaluation of Julius is exactly why I'm excited. He's no where close a finished product as a rebounder. He's so raw, and yet he still averaged 10 boards as a rookie. When he fully grasps positioning and learns how to properly box out, he could become a 15/15 guy. We're talking Barkley level of rebounding potential.

    And I'm not worried about effort with Julius. He just doesn't understand where/when to exert his energy yet.
     
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  14. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    The wheels need to start turning faster Julius

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I wonder if he just needs better direction in the off season with a really good dedicated trainer like Clarkson has.

    I have no doubt he's a hard worker, but I've never seen any indication of a trainer describing the drills they run with him.
     
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  16. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Interesting lineup
     
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  17. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    Why do they want Randle at the 5?

    I know Luke's trying to groom Julius as Draymond at center, but they have two different skillsets. He can't shoot, he's not a good position rebounder, and he lacks any sort of defending ability.

    Everytime he's run it in preseason, guards just walk in to the paint.
     
  18. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    We'll have the ability to switch screens with that unit, but I'm more excited that Deng is playing the 4. Yay!
     
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  19. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    The way Julius plays the 5 so far I can't get excited about it.
     
  20. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Well, get used to it. If it doesn't work, there's other options that we can use at the 5, but I like the concept of what Luke is trying...
     
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