D'Angelo Russell Discussion: Adopting A Professional Attitude

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by The Original 81, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    Byron stunts the growth of our young guys. There are players like Kobe or KG ane then there's Russ, Pau, LO and so on. Coach with bad inluance can realy mess up and set back a player. Im talking from a personal experience btw ;).
     
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  2. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Hard to say. My understanding is he has the green light right now. He CAN make decisions on the fly if he wants to, but often times he's content to let the offense run through other people. Only occasionally does he take the reigns over and just do what he wants to/thinks the team should do.

    I'd say right now it's more like 50/50 or maybe even 60/40 with 60 being "not aggressive enough". Of course there's the caveat that I don't know for certain he can take over whenever he wants and maybe he perceives a leash being there that'll pull him if he tries to do too much so that kind of fits in both categories.

    When I played football we had this kid on our team who was very strong and athletic naturally but hardly ever worked hard. One day he got pissed off at our coaches and his response was to work his tail off. He was first in drills, blew up the offensive line repeatedly, and caused just a general havoc all day. After practice my coach told him, "See you f***ed up now. Now I know exactly how far you can push yourself and how great you can be and if you don't do that on a regular basis we're going to have a problem."

    When Russell had that game against Orlando that's the response I had in my head. You screwed up Russell! Now we all saw what you can do! You can't sit around and pretend like you can't do that or take it easy because we know now how good you can be today. Now you have to do that every time. See if he can have a good game like that, then is it really that much Byron's fault that he's not having those games regularly? Is it Byron's fault he doesn't always play like he did at the end of that Phoenix game? I don't think so. I think that's on D'Angelo and he'll have to learn to get through it and adjust. Is Byron holding him back? Yeah a little bit. I think Kobe is holding him back more though and I think D'Angelo is helping both of them hold him back.
     
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  3. Lakers2015

    Lakers2015 - Lakers Starter -

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    I disagree. Russell is averaging 10, 4, and 3 despite being reduced to being just a jump shooter. Yes he needs to be more aggressive, but when the ball is in his hands he's shown he can make phenomenal plays. If he had a coach who put the ball in his hands more and let him run the show like Mudiay I have no doubt he'd be putting up big numbers.

    Per 36 he averages 14, 6, and 4 and that doesn't take into account playing with Kobe and Clarkson and not being a primary ball handler. Byron deserves a lot of the blame here. You don't take a true PG like Russell and just make him into a spot up shooter. That's a waste of his talents. Clearly it's not about winning games because he continues to play Lou Williams at backup PG even though he's been struggling and he's clearly not nor will he ever be a point guard and playing a 6"6 dude at center.

    We've seen this kid attack the basket relentlessly at Ohio State. He was never relegated to what he's been now. We've seen him turn the switch on and start attacking the basket like he did against Phoenix. He's clearly capable of doing it, but seeing how tentative he is at the start of games that's a direct result of not knowing if he'll get pulled by Byron for one or two bad plays. At the end of the games in garbage time if you leave him in there he can be a lot looser and not being worried about being taken out.
     
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  4. Toklat

    Toklat - Lakers Starter -

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    Comparing him to any other coach at this point is unfair..
     
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  5. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    So his per 36 numbers are 14,6, and 4 and you think giving him the team means he'll get a double-double? All I said is he wouldn't be averaging a double-double and I stand by that.

    You want to take him out of here and put him in Denver, you run into the same arguments: oh he would have to play with X player and Y this and Z that.

    It's not an insult to say he wouldn't be setting the world on fire. 14, 6, and 4 would be terrific averages for a player in his position with his limitations.
     
  6. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

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    I think the perception of a leash is there, and very strongly, whether or not Byron has truly given him the green light. To me, that's on Byron. It's the coaches job to communicate expectations effectively to players, and while doing so, instilling confidence and trust in their relationship. We know Byron is an old-school hard-a** with his players, using tactics like "suck it up, just do it, you should know this, just work harder, etc or I'll bench your a**!" That's one side of his mouth, and out the other is supposed to be "I believe in you D'Angelo, be you and take control of the offense." One, that's confusing intellectually and psychologically, in the sense that he's not sure where he stands in his relationship with his coach. Two, it seems obvious that Byron's a bad teacher and communicator. Guys aren't understanding the offense or defense he wants to run. If he can't communicate x's and o's, maybe he can't communicate the finer subtleties of relationship dynamics and expectations.

    I also don't think it is fair to use someone's behavior in spite of certain factors as the barometer for what they should be doing. The factors are the real problem, not what someone is sometimes able to do in spite of them. The question I'd ask myself as your football coach is: "You showed me how great you can be briefly. What have I been doing wrong and what can I do differently to get you to show me this always?"

    Here's my analysis of the relationship dynamic between Russell and Byron. Byron is known to be extremely stubborn. It's his way or the highway, clinging to his views despite new info or contrary info. Russell is a confident and competitive kid and a leader, but in a go with the flow Tim Duncan way. He's going to try to fit in and be compliant to what Byron's asking of the team. But at the same time Byron's allegedly asking him to break free and do his own thing. In other words, Byron's conveying the message: "Try to ignore how I treat the team (stubborn harda**) and go ahead and do your own thing. Trust me, I won't bench you." That would work for a young Kobe, but not for a personality like Russell's. Being an inflexible coach 90% of the time totally negates the 10% you're trying to allow someone to be free, especially when that someone is a quiet, try to fit in leader. That 90/10 inflexible/free confusing crap is the problem, IMO. Russell is frustrated, confused, insecure, and over-thinking instead of playing with his beautiful instincts. We can't ask Russell to not feel that way. We need to ask the coach to stop making him feel that way.

    Now, why is Russell sometimes rarely able to embrace that 10% and be himself? I don't know. Maybe he's angry at Byron and is playing like "F-it"? Maybe there was something we the fans didn't see in the timeout huddle or pregame that made that perceived leash less apparent to him?

    Do you think a stubborn, poor communicating coach, running an offense ill suited to your strengths is more or less likely to result in you going completely against your go-with-the-flow/fit-in personality to run your own offense that's contradictory to his, even though he's telling you it's ok? IDK, man. I can only imagine Russell with a more modern and flexible coach that embraced his style of play. He'd still be somewhat timid due to adjusting to the nba, but he'd be miles more confident than we're seeing, don't ya think?
     
  7. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    When I watch this team I see a bunch of black holes and Russell is the only guy who seems to try and set up his teammates and run an offense. We have no identity on offense and I think the play of our young guys is a direct reflection of that. When they just say "f' it" and go for theirs then we see the flashes of greatness.

    I think there is a lot D'Angelo has to work on and he is far from a finished product. But I do think he will instantly improve when we get a new coach.
     
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't disagree with most of what you said, I just tend to put more responsibility in people's own hands. I know you're far more of a psych mind than I am, but for my money I want guys that'll make the decisions. I will never defend Byron's way of coaching. You're 100% right in that it's not working with Russell and it's not working with the team. He clearly doesn't know how to teach otherwise this team would understand something by now. I don't see dimwits out there, I see confusion which to me is indicative of a poor teacher.

    Still, one of the things coming out of college that was supposed to be a calling card of Russell was his sky high confidence. I have seen so little of that. I agree that his personality does not mesh whatsoever with Byron's, it's one reason Byron needs to go.

    I still however don't think his personality should be THIS timid. Even Duncan can and will get fired up. Have we seen him have that moment yet? I don't think so. It's a fair criticism that he's not as invested in the game as his compatriots. What concerns me is that was something everyone accused Okafor of before the draft, but not Russell. We were supposed to be getting the kid that really wanted it more than anyone else did.

    I'm not passing judgement on him, but he has room to grown and I think he has room to take his future and his role into his own hands.
     
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  9. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

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    Completely agreed!

    It seems your question is: "What happened to your confidence, D'Angelo?"
    My question is: "What can you do differently, Byron to improve D'Angelo's confidence?"

    Not sure if this applies, or if it does, if it's a stretch to apply it to this situation. A child's view of himself is completely dependent upon how he perceives/feels (consciously and unconsciously) his value in his parents' eyes (through their actions and words). A child feels good about himself if he feels his parents feel good about him. A coach is a father figure to a 19 year old young man. If Byron's stubborn personality, confusing system, and poor teaching style are negatively affecting Russell's inner self, it's up to the adult figure to change, not the child.
     
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  10. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree to that, but at the same time Russell is now in the professional world. He's now NOT a child anymore and can't be treated as such. In that regard, he's an adult and therefore needs to take responsibility for himself in a lot of ways.

    What I think we've concluded is a fantastically elaborate and in depth version of: Byron sucks and Russell needs to try harder. :D
     
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  11. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

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    Well, I wasn't saying to coddle the dude, lol. I just mean that Byron's clearly negatively tapping into an aspect of Russell's psyche (inner child) and no amount of trying harder can remedy that. Despite what cognitive bulls*** psychology tries to teach us in tv and movies, how we feel and act isn't about trying harder to feel and act differently. Sometimes environmental factors (specifically certain relationships) trigger something in us that we have little to no control over.
     
  12. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I've never tried to say Russell isn't being negatively affected by Scott. Those two don't seem to mesh. I do think that both sides need to work harder to find a middle ground though. I'm not saying D'Angelo just has to "man up" or whatever nonsense words Scott wants to use. I'm saying more like he needs to say "eff it" and just go out, play his game, and have fun. Forget the expectations and the criticisms, and the leash. Just go do what you do best. We haven't seen enough of that.
     
  13. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    ^ if he pulls a stunt lika that, he'll get benched for a week. Tough love :).
     
  14. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    When he played aggressive and free in Orlando he played his most minutes and closed the game.
     
  15. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

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    Oh I know that you meant that. I don't think he can try harder to do that ^^. Something about Byron is eliciting a block in D'Angelo's ability to do the underlined.
     
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  16. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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  17. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    Don't even want to hear it. Someone with a calmer demeanor, please sum it up for me...
     
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  18. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Summary: blah blah blah, generic generalities, blah blah blah
     
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  19. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

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    two words... Man the f*** up! Mathematical genius Byron Scott
     
  20. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    I understood, from someone on LG posting a sort of recap on this ish, that the words "leash" and "Russel" were used.
    In the sense that there is one.
     

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