Deandre Ayton Discussion: This Is A Platform I Can't Run From

this is an aside, but...what??? i googled and found he was the third pick behind two bobs (boozer and ferry) and a "territorial" pick. i just can't imagine living in 1959, seeing wilt chamberlain, and not picking him first. he won mvp his rookie year!

anyway...i'm less concerned about his FTA rate with us than i would be with him as a 1/2 scoring option. i like that he has the midrange and those little hooks from 10-12 feet.

 

I think with Ayton he's got enough talent that he could be a legit threat to be used by a good offensive coordinator in different ways. I see you're point about the mid range and offensive rebounding. Last year that was a big problem playing small plus having players like Rui who was allergic to rebounding. Seems less of a concern with Luka and more size this year.

For example, Doncic attacking Eiffel Tower didn't work well. It would be a nice to have a big who could just pull him away from the rim as a different option.

I know there is a high chance it won't happen but Ayton should and could be more than just a roleplaying C. No you definitely don't want him to be your #1 or #2 option or even #3 but you can see how Boston used Horford and Porzingis in different ways - posting up smaller dudes, stretching the defense, pnr and that should and could be ayton

 

You forgot about the goat

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2001.html

 

Kwame was listed as primarily a PF I think when he was drafted

 

So far in the first half: he looks totally out of sync on offense, but made a few nice defensive plays.

 

Finally a good showing. Let’s see it again.

 

Our defensive paint has improved a lot with Ayton and Jake. They both get their hands in the lanes, we are not going to be giving up nearly as many paint attacks as we have in the past.

 

his attitude has seemed great from day one. he's obviously large and talented, and this is about as motivated as we can expect to ever see him, imo. i'm expecting a strong year. not a "oh look that's why he was the #1 pick/he's an allstar now" season, but one that solidifies him as a solid starting center. the pendulum swung too far to the negative on him, imo.

 

One dreams of a lineup of Ayton, Lebron, Luka, AR, and Keon Ellis with almost a perfect blend of offense/defense for a finishing lineup, and then I realize I'm Charlie Brown

 

i mean, i want the same thing, but i'm not sure it's the lakers' fault we don't have keon ellis. now, if you want to argue that alex caruso would be an equally good fit in that spot, then yes, that's on the lakers' FO.

 

Caruso is definitely part of it but's its also AR for me: overall, just a general malaise about the direction of the franchise. After the post-bubble team - the Lakers haven't fielded a complete team IMO. I maybe one of the few holdouts on this, but I think they were agonizingly close to fielding a team that could have taken down Denver and won more titles s/p getting out of the Brick business.

I mean last year how close were the Lakers pre Luka trade? Christie finally developed into what people were hoping and they were legit going to run a AD/Lebron/DFS/AR/Christie finishing lineup if they didn't make the Luka move. They were destroying teams So close: just a mediocre big and a bench scorer away. I think AD was right regardless of the merits of going public. The year before: just needed a mediocre big and a bruce brown type - didn't happen - dfs showed up a year too late. The year before was a success IMO and yet they didn't fix the holes that Denver exposed regardless of what one thinks of Ham.

Feel the same way this year - just need a competent POA defender and things would fall into place but again feel like Charlie here. Whether they could have or couldn't, the fact remains the first 2 AD years they definitely seemed to pull out the stops or were creative to really fill needs. Howard/Green signing then Gasol/Hedgehog moves - these were all on the margin moves that filled gaps and in retrospect strong moves. That simply hasn't happened since. I think the Lakers were handed a gift with AR a 20-30 million player on a budget contract - basically a rookie QB deal in the NFL and that gift is about to end. A Get Out of the Brick err Jail Card and the last Lebron years will be wasted including perhaps this last one. Luka is in his prime - get a complete team around the man

 

Honestly, I just don't think the Buss family had enough money in the bank to pay all these guys. They saw the writing on the wall and sold the team. So, basically, you got what you wanted but NOW you have to give Mark Walter the chance to do those things that Jeannie was unwilling to.

Building a great NBA team is not easy and definitely not cheap. I think we have the knowledge, we will just see if we have the commitment and the cashflow.

 

my point is the red is doing a lot of lifting here. keon ellis isn't a FA, nor has he been traded to someone for assets we had to offer. we didn't have the assets to get some of what you listed ahead of that, either. you might say we should have found a keon ellis, but...we found an austin reaves in the same manner during this lamented time frame.

i just think outside of caruso and the westbrook trade (each of which were just astoundingly bad choices that could almost justify termination on their own), we've been pretty good. we did way better this offseason than i thought we would, and everyone--fans and haters alike--is still underwhelmed.

like, we're in the ayton thread. we signed ayton for less than capela and lopez got (probably largely bc competitors were trying to keep those two out of our hands).

there weren't any good POA guys on the market. smart may have been the best, closest thing, and we got him.

 

I really liked the pre-Luka trade version of last year's team, but ultimately I don't think LeBron would have been capable of driving the offense for 3 multiple playoff rounds. Even if we added another big and bench scorer. And AD and Reaves weren't good enough to do that.

I disagree about the 2023 offseason. They brought in Gabe as DLO insurance, Prince for depth on the wing and Wood as a low-risk, high-reward bench scorer to add to the core of the WCF team. Plus Hayes at backup center. I remember really liking that roster and thinking they had a chance to get to the Finals. Obviously that didn't work out. Then in the 2024 offseason I think the FO (probably rightfully) stopped thinking the core had legitimate championship upside, so they didn't do much.

The question is how they're going to weigh rounding out this season's roster against flexibility for future seasons, and I don't know the answer to that. I've been staunchly go all-in on this year, but we're already behind schedule with LeBron not even being re-evaluated until a couple of weeks into the season. We'll see - the failed Mark Williams trade last year is evidence that the FO could be more aggressive in the short term.

 

I'm just using Keon Ellis as a placeholder and I'm not being unrealistic stating we should have got Keon Ellis. Brick put a huge hole in the assets but the AR contract was huge in getting out of the hole. And I think you're taking some arguments from other posters and projecting onto what I'm saying. Take as sum FO's have wins and losses I'm not even saying the Lakers FO has done a sum total positive job (AR and Christie drafts are solid work, As @sk2408 stated some gambles seems solid - Prince/Wood and I've been as a big of a proponent of Ayton as anyone else. But at the end of the day bottom line the Lakers have had solid playoff team for several years that they haven't been fill able to fill the gaps.

Maybe it is the Caruso curse.

 

[QUOTE="sk2408, post: 579514, member: 2918"]I really liked the pre-Luka trade version of last year's team, but ultimately I don't think LeBron would have been capable of driving the offense for 3 multiple playoff rounds. Even if we added another big and bench scorer. And AD and Reaves weren't good enough to do that.

I disagree about the 2023 offseason. They brought in Gabe as DLO insurance, Prince for depth on the wing and Wood as a low-risk, high-reward bench scorer to add to the core of the WCF team. Plus Hayes at backup center. I remember really liking that roster and thinking they had a chance to get to the Finals. Obviously that didn't work out. Then in the 2024 offseason I think the FO (probably rightfully) stopped thinking the core had legitimate championship upside, so they didn't do much.

The question is how they're going to weigh rounding out this season's roster against flexibility for future seasons, and I don't know the answer to that. I've been staunchly go all-in on this year, but we're already behind schedule with LeBron not even being re-evaluated until a couple of weeks into the season. We'll see - the failed Mark Williams trade last year is evidence that the FO could be more aggressive in the short term.[/QUOTE]

I don't know - I think the Twolves have a lot more problems with AD and Christi and I didn't come away that impressed with OKC or Indiana. I thought they were very well built and complete teams (sorry for over-using the term in this thread). No gaps in roster construction but compared to past championship teams nothing really special and I frankly think both lose easily to Boston from the year before, Bubble Lakers, GS.

Oh well it's also true that Luka was a shell. He was not the same player that destroyed the Twolves the year prior

 

See .... here's where Walters deep pockets will probably make a difference going forward the next couple years of Luka's prime and this good team we've started to surround him with. I agree with abeer that aside from letting Caruso go and the Westbrook disaster with the organization shooting themselves in both feet the same summer .... most of the less than great margin moves have been dictated by the Buss family NOT being in the multi-billion club of owners willing and able to pay the brutal repeater tax far over the salary cap to keep their good rosters together. While they will have to be cognizant each season as to the 2nd apron and what players out there beyond our team that might be worth staying under it to be able to try to get .... Mark and Jeanie now will not be so hesitant to keep together the proven solid players JJ and the FO value greatly around Luka that are here already, and Mark, like his billionaire counterpart owners, won't blink at what the repeater tax dollars themselves are. To keep the team together. As in AR, Ayton and I think Rui too aren't going anywhere.