2024-25 Team Developments: Trades / Free Agents / News / Rumors / Ideas

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by TIME, May 22, 2024.

  1. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    Any sentence that starts, "Kareem and Shaq are great but..." I'm going to react to.

    Kareem carried Oscar to the Bucks title. Oscar was in his twilight years at that point, and far from his prime. I will grant that KAJ was somewhat carried his last two rings by Magic and Worthy, but Kareem was the heart of the team for 1980, 82, 85 and the main reason we won those three titles.

    Shaq dominated the league in the threepeat, and there is no way to compare Jokic's playoff performances so far to Shaq's in those three years.

    You have already acknowledged that Dream carried two mid level squads to rings.
     
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  2. Wino

    Wino - Lakers Starter -

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    This is why, when people talk about great players and goats, it is always a sketchy conversation. Jordan had a great 6 year run, but beyond that his career was kind of mediocre. For six years, he was a god. Magic had a run of 10 years that was amazing, if he would have never had to retire early, I always wondered what could have happened if the Lakers were able to retool around him. That never happened and we never really got to see him as the #1 option. I have little doubt that he would have eaten some of Jordan's legacy. But it is what it is. Jokic will possibly have a longer tenure of greatness than Shaq had. But Shaq in a 5 year window, had a higher peak and I doubt Jokic will EVER win 3 in a row.
     
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  3. sk2408

    sk2408 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Murray hasn't made an All-Star team but he clearly played at an All-Star level in the 2020 and 2023 playoff runs. I think what the Nuggets have around Jokic is better than what the Spurs had around Duncan in 03 before Parker and Ginobili came into their own, and better than what that 06 Heat team had around Wade. I think Jokic's supporting cast is fine. There's not another Top 20 guy in the league, but Murray can play at a Top 15 level for long stretches in the playoffs, Gordon is one of the best role players in the league, and MPJ is a classic feast or famine guy. KCP and Brown were both higher end role players that got paid elsewhere. Of course Jokic is helping to make all of these guys better, but I think their supporting cast is actually a little underrated.

    Jokic feels Aaron Rodgers-ish to me. The stats were crazy in his prime, and when Rodgers won the SB in 2010 it seemed like he was going to take the mantle from Brady and become what Mahomes eventually became later. But then he never got to another SB. Still all-time great stats and accolades, but in hindsight Rodgers career feels a little underwhelming.
     
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  4. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

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    Zion is a big time talent and he's still young. Luka and Zion would be a potent 1-2 punch for years. Zion is like early Lebron, it doesn't matter if he has a jumper or not, you still can't guard him one on one.
     
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  5. Pioneer10

    Pioneer10 - Lakers All Star -

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    The but doesn't bother me I watched showtime and yes Kareem may have been the best player on the first title teams but his teammate was freakin Magic Johnson. talk about a player who could adjust his offensive performance to maximize team output, he's the greatest of all time there. Shaq was Shaq physically I've never seen a more dominant player and that includes MJ and Lebron - however, the FT shooting was a big problem and he played in a far weaker center era than Kareem or Hakeem. Hakeem really took it to him in that Orlando series.

    Basketball has grown tremendously both in popularity and the available population to get basketball players (both in the US and international). We're going to get more great players just because the player pool is just bigger now.

    And I stick by Jokic has not had the equivalent talent around him: Murray maybe underrated relative to his All-star games etc but he is simply just not the calibre of player like Magic, Kobe, or Wade. Murray wouldn't even be in the conversation of greatest PG of all time while Magic is #1 or at worst #2 if you're a Curry guy. Kobe and Wade are probably #2 and #3 among all time SG's.

    I guess where I'm going with this to me it's not denigrating any of these guys like Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem to compare them to a guy who just won 3 MVPS, a title, and put up a 60 point triple double. Comparing centers is tough generationally IMO but I don't see any reason to think Jokic wouldn't't have been an MVP caliber guy no matter what era.
     
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  6. CarolinaLakerFan

    CarolinaLakerFan - Lakers Starter -

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    Luka, Zion and AR would be a major problem in the league for years.
     
  7. KuzmoBall17

    KuzmoBall17 - Lakers Starter -

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    Zion on average playing even less than Joel Embiid.
    Just 214 games for his 6 seasons
    Hell ,big no
     
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  8. karacha

    karacha Moderator Staff Member

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    All that is true. When Zion plays. Which is not often, so it's a horrible trade idea.
     
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  9. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

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    Yeah but he's still only 24 years old, and there hasn't been any ACL, Achilles tears, back Injuries etc. I'd roll that dice post Lebron myself.
     
  10. sk2408

    sk2408 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Depends entirely what you're trading for Zion. AR? No. Zion is still the superior talent, but AR is becoming an extremely reliable fringe All-Star caliber guard still in his mid 20s on a great contract. But something like Rui/Vando/Dalton and modest draft capital? Yeah, now I'm thinking about it. But if you're the Pels, no way you just dump him for something like that. You're better off hoping he one day puts it all together, or at least is healthy for a long enough stretch that you get a better return.
     
  11. FrontOfJersey22

    FrontOfJersey22 - Lakers All Star -

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    I don’t want any part of Zion.
    He’s the most unreliable player of his generation.
     
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  12. KuzmoBall17

    KuzmoBall17 - Lakers Starter -

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    It doesn't matter how old he is.It is same why Lakers refused to trade for Williams because he's not reliable and not playing in b2b
     
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  13. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i was willing to move for zion, pre-luka, without including reaves (all the picks and expirings). i'm good now.
     
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  14. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

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    Williams is a different story though, he's played almost as many games as Hayes, at a significant upgrade across the board. I still wonder what really went down in that situation. I'd still trade Dalton for Williams right now.
     
  15. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i loved that trade and was bummed when it was canceled. just gotta believe we saw something that will become obvious later. but it took us out of contention this year, when for a moment i was like...this might happen!
     
  16. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

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    Maybe we found something, that might spell trouble down the line? I find it odd, that we made that 10 years from now comment. Who realistically, worries about a role player, 10 years later? I think we tried to downgrade, or put a lot of protections on that 1st rd pick, and Charlotte declined to negotiate. I honestly don't see anything, significant health wise with Mark Williams today. I would trade 2 years of legit chip chasing now, for the possibility of Dalton having a longer career eventually. He might, and he might still end up, in another uniform anyway.
     
  17. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    we made a ten years comment? that is indeed silly. i thought the concern was fairly immediate. he is due for a contract, and you don't want to be on the hook during luka's prime for a guy who's not going to play.
     
  18. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

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    Rob talked about Williams trajectory long term with Luka post Lebron, when the trade was made. After it got rescinded he made that comment about valuing our resources for the long haul, as a reason for pulling the deal.
     
  19. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    I tend to believe the front office actually saw something that was a concern for now and later. We can't say it do to privacy issues but it is really hard for me to believe given our need at center that we rescind a trade for a guy that age without something being really really off in that physical.
     
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  20. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

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    I give us the benefit of the doubt, however if he doesn't have some longterm injury issue, over the next few seasons? It will continue to be a mystery.

    Granted..I'm chip or bust. If he made it for two seasons, and we brought in two trophies. It would have been an awesome trade, even if he never played again 3 seasons later.

    You have to remember this also..we didn't just call off the trade based on his physical, we attempted to renegotiate the terms of the trade. So we would have still took him, under a different set of terms, which we were unable to come to an agreement with Charlotte on. That's when the trade was called off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2025
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