Jaxson Hayes Discussion: Looking Lost

lol, was just trashing the bagley pick in the other thread, but yes...i could see it.

 

I know lots of people are talking about the Luka effect. But Hayes would be decent with any good PnR partner, his vertical threat is a real thing and he is athletic enough to switch really well and not get blown by.

He doesn't provide much interior rim protection, and he doesn't provide much outside of finishing lobs on the offensive end. But it's still valuable in this version of the NBA. Like I said in another thread, he's probably going to ask for a contract somewhere between the TPMLE and the full MLE. Like Weezy said, Id sign him for multiple years at around 4-8m per.

 

2 years/12-16 million depending on options (player option low end, team option high end, no option middle).

 

I think we need to start giving Hayes his respect. He is playing like a starting caliber center (when he’s on the court). It’s not just being a lob threat, he’s great at finishing as the roll man in even when it’s not a lob, and his defense is improving compared to where it was earlier this year.

 

his mid-floor/short-roll decision making is improving, too. not great, but clearly better than before.

anyway, none of this changes my salary projections/expectations.

 

I have no problem signing Hayes to a 2 year contract. 3 year would be better if we could go 3/20m. Go 6, 7 and 8 million for each year. Higher salary also helps us in case we need to match salaries for a trade.

 

That seems high? What happened to “between” TPMLE and MLE?

 

For me, it’s ALL Luka.
He was terrible until Luka showed up. He gets ALL of his points on either Luka or Austin placing the rock right at the rim. He hasn’t developed any kind of post game whatsoever and doesn’t even have an elbow mid range J.
His defense has improved a tiny bit, but still makes really dumb fouls at times when he doesn’t have to. He will never be a high IQ player, but he’s a decent fill in until we can sign a real starting caliber C.

 

He was never terrible. I won’t deny Hayes makes some bad plays defensively, but you can say the same about pretty much every player. Not really understanding all the nitpicking about Jax’s game if anything how awful we’ve looked without him has shown how valuable this guy is to this team and that people have underrated him as a player.

 

Not going to argue that Hayes doesn't have significant limitations but I think he was definitely not terrible this season He was playing real well pre-Luka, except for the stretch when he came back from his first injury. Luka has increased his scoring average and lob opportunities but he's been very good on in PnR and as a switch big on defense this year. He was a big reason the Lakers kept winning post-AD trade, pre Luka returning from injury.

 

Ah …. thanks. Dagger to my stomach …. thought @abeer3 had lost it.

 

No, he was terrible.
So terrible that we were willing to throw away an awesome prospect in Knecht AND picks for a broken, mediocre center to send Jax to the bench
I watched every game, he was awful.
Can you argue my points that I mentioned?
Does he have a post game? Does he have any kind of jumper like most good starting bigs have today?
Has he really developed significantly on defense since he’s been here?
No.
He’s a very good PnR finisher when paired with one of the best passers in the game- a generational talent.
I’m not nitpicking, I’m just calling it like I see it.

 

He's a roleplayer so he's going to have limitations but I think you're understating what's he good at. He's an elite lob threat, good FT shooter, very switchable on defense, decent rebounder plus he's got a really good motor for a big. An elbow jumper would be nice but I don't think if he had say post game that would really help the Lakers where the ball is going to be in the hands of an elite playmaker basically all game

His advanced metrics back up he's hasn't been terrible and his plus minus was also good or really good for example in the post ad injury pre Luka trade where the Lakers were winning around Lebron and AR

You can even look thru this thread he's played well in a ton of games pre Luka and that reflected in here.

 

Mark Williams may be a ticking time bomb injury wise. But he is far from mediocre, he’s averaging 16/10 and a block in 26 mins. Per 36 mins that’s 22/14/3 a steal and 2 blocks. And before anyone argues that per 36 numbers are hypotheticals, here are the box scores over 30 mins this year:

20/12 - 3 blocks
24/16 - 1 block
31/13 - 1 block
19/19 - 2 blocks
13/13 - 3 blocks
38/9 - 0 blocks
20/15 - 3 blocks
23/14 - 2 blocks
26/16 - 1 block
24/12 - 2 blocks
24/10 - 2 blocks

He’s really solid and just turned 23. If he wasn’t injury prone that was a home run trade. Actually, if he was injury prone, there’s no way you get his potential for Knecht and a first.

As for Hayes, he isn’t terrible. He just isn’t a classical center that has any post moves or an elbow jumper or interior rim protection.

He’s more a rim runner like a poor man’s Stoudemire. But he moves his feet pretty well for a big and that allows us to play our switch heavy defence and be successful at it. His profile is an important cog in how we want to play and he is an above average version of what we need.

 

I think he's better than a solid backup. He's a starting caliber C, at least for us. It really doesn't matter if he doesn't start on 29 other teams because he's a great fit for us. And he's become much better since the start of the season. He's still young and developing.

I keep hearing that we need to find a true starting center, but who is this mythical player? Any suggestions? Ideally without giving up Knecht?

 

Got right back to where he left off before the knee injury.


He was just running straight to the basket no matter what Phoenix matadors where between him and the rim





He'll need to give 10% of his next deal to Luka