They suck... less than we do, but they do own us lately, so there's that. So no..switch the two and we'd have a better record. Lue has a ring too, I can't think of anything Vogel is superior at.[/QUOTE]
Until we play in the post-season, I can't say with confidence that we'd beat them then either. I'd like to hope so, but they would have the coaching edge in the matchup IMO.
he would. and lue would have another ring if he took his spot as vogel's assistant instead of doc's. i would take lue as an assistant any day.
good thing they keep getting beat then, so we don't have to find out. the kawhi leonard dribbles to the elbow and shoots offense is a stroke of genius, though. i mean, who'd think of that?
When the FO assembles a supporting cast that is outplayed by two guys who were almost out of the League and an undrafted Rookie, blaming the coach for the team’s failures is just plain ridiculous. Vogel isn’t perfect, but when he’s given an actual NBA level roster, he is good enough. Some people have a very bad case of selective memory.
Some of us wanted Monty over Lue and Vogel. That was the miss, TBH. Monty is a great coach; more importantly, a better person. We botched that.
I think Vogel had that team greatly overachieving last year when you factor in everything -- injuries to both Bron and AD. Covid (DS wasn't the same after his). The front office guaranteed 5 players 4 starting spots and only two deserved that right. Locker room turmoil because DS, Marc, Drumm, and Trezz were all unhappy with their roles and rightfully so because they were each promised the moon. Even with all that, most believe we beat the Suns if AD was healthy for that series and at the very least go on to face the Bucks. Bron is so easy to draw plays up for. How many coaches has that worked out for? Spo (was on hot seat at 1 point) and Lue (occasionally). End of list unless you want to count Coach K. Bron is notorious for being a coach killer for his entire career and for not listening to his coach or going rogue. There's a slew of viral videos during the Cleveland years of not paying attention in the huddle or to a play on the white board. He is who he is at this point and everyone knows it. A coach who didn't have the juice to pick his own staff, who was given a gimmick extension, and who didn't get the vote of confidence from Bron isn't going to tell him how to close out a game.
Then what's the point of keeping him around? Bron isn't going to pay him anymore attention next season. Drummond only played 25 games here and Gasol was given the starting job when he signed without earning it. Vogel choose not to play Trez, maybe we shouldn't have signed him. Still Frank bungled the rotations and his late game coaching was subpar last season too. James and Davis just played in more games. Overachieved? No I don't think he did at all.
Bron was fine with Frank when we were winning. I don't think he dislikes him, I think he's neutral toward him and because Frank is not Lue, he's not sticking his neck out for him. But at this point, he has to go. Too much damage done and someone has to be the scapegoat. Front office won't look in the mirror, Bron, AD, and Klutch won't own any of it either. BUT the point in keeping him would be that the next coach is going to be MUCH worse. At worst Frank is a top 10 coach (personally think he's closer to 5 than 10), if we don't get Snyder and I don’t like our odds even if he's available, then we're not getting a good coach and 90% of everyone whining about Frank will be missing him in 7 months. why I think we'll struggle to find someone: -the market is weak -we don't value coaches -we don't pay market value -we don't offer long deals -Rambis/micromanagement -Bron isn't easy to coach -roster will be limited - expectations will be too high
I Respect your opinions,, I'm not as high on Vogel but top 5 coach in the NBA? I'm just going to leave it at we have a difference of opinion on Frank. It's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I've been a frank supporter but nothing justifies last night He ran lineups with the following: Bradley, Monk, DJ DJ, Russ, Monk Monk, Bradley, Russ I'm sorry wtf and he was saying he was treating this like a playoff game?!?!? Oh btw that other team had CJ McCollum and BI at the 2 and 3: sigh
I have him in that 5-10 range. That might seem high until you start listing coaches. What's your list? Obviously any list starts with Pop, Spo, and Kerr. After that Nurse, Monty, and Carlisle. I can't put anyone else ahead of him. Snyder MIGHT be but he isn't blameless in them coming up short every year and being the most overrated playoff team year in and year out. And that's my best case scenario replacement for Frank. I don't know how much of that is being stuck with the most overrated "all-star" center in the league either. I think he's a little better coaching offense and not as good with D. Vogel has a ring, Snyder doesn't with the Jazz. Next is Lue. If you listen to Bron, Lue is in the conversation with Phil. I think he's insanely overrated. I think I'm pretty in line with abeer on his Lue thoughts, so I'm not going to spill more digital ink on him. Good coach. Good with good players and depth. But overrated as hell by the league. Next? I don't know... Thibs and Bud? Thibs burns his players out and wears out his welcome. I like Thibs, just think it's the wrong era for him. Bud is a good coach, but the Bucks were going to fire him if he didn't win the 'ship and then he did and got the extension that Frank should've gotten from us. Taylor Jenkins? Doing great with the Grizz, but not proven under the bright lights. Too soon. Even if you have him after all those, Quinn is the only one where there's even a chance they're walking through that door. So we're downgrading the position. If anyone lists Doc Rivers or MDA, I'm starting a Kickstarter for an official dislike button on here. When we let go of Frank, he'll get a job the same week if he wants one.
To be fair, he had the team at 42-30 with Lebron and AD missing a bunch of time together. The team was up 2-1 on a great Suns team before AD got hurt again. That being said, he has done a poor job with his rotations this year.
Everyone loves Lue now. Even though he almost had diarrhea in Cleveland towards the end. We are a fickle people. One year someone does something, they are the greatest thing that ever lived and we should have had 20/20 vision. Then, the following year, he stunk, and we should have never hired him. Lue is a good coach but Vogel is a good coach too I'd take Frank in 2020 over all of them.
