Russell Westbrick Discussion: Clipper Gonna Clip

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Jul 29, 2021.

  1. pika1708

    pika1708 - Lakers Starter -

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    What a mf

    My hate for him grows everytime I hear him talk or read transcripts. God
     
  2. pika1708

    pika1708 - Lakers Starter -

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    Have you watched the games? Where do you see Russ effort? He makes turnovers and doesn't get back, that's like his special. He's terrible off ball. He never boxes out.

    We can make a game. Next game we count the number of times Russ hurts the team just for not trying (giving freebies on the meme elbow Js, missed layups, dumb TOs and so on). How many do you need to see to change your opinion?
     
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  3. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    yeah, can't get on board with the idea that russ has been all out. just no evidence i've seen.
     
  4. Alcindor

    Alcindor - Lakers Starter -

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    Oh, there is no way, the guy stands there and watches his man waltz to the rim, Turns it over and looks to the ref. He positions well for boards and penetrates and dishes well (when he can hold on to the ball) and why is he out there running around on the perimeter? No one cares. All-out effort? Hooey.
     
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  5. ADKOBE

    ADKOBE - Lakers 6th Man -

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    This is the most pathetic Laker season ever, with plenty of talent to have a better record.
     
  6. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

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  7. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    No I’ve never watched a game in my life. I know nothing. Russ gives no effort at all. I was wrong.

    AD and Lebron always give a ton of effort and would never lose to a tanking team like Portland with no players that you’ve ever heard of except Nurk … oh wait, Russ didn’t even play that game.

    Last I checked those two were the leaders of the team and they don’t give an eff anymore this season. And they wanted Russ here in the first place.
     
  8. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    LJ, I think what has many of us so annoyed is that Russ lacks self-awareness and awareness in general of what this team needs from him. No, LeBron hasn’t given all out effort, but he’s in year 19 and has been to like 10 finals, multiple Olympics, etc, it’s a miracle he’s even doing what he is. I hold him to a different standard because of that, he cannot be the defender he once was and also be the offensive player we need. AD I give less leeway because he’s in his 20’s and should have tons of energy to give, but I’ve also come to accept that he’s more Pau than Shaq.

    All that said, Russ isn’t exactly having to do a ton on offense, probably the least he’s had to do in his career, so what’s his excuse on defense. If Russ just chose to take what comes to him on offense, and focus all his saved energy into defense we’d be so much better for it. If he just became a cutter and slasher for easy hoops and on the defensive end just payed his man full attention he’s likely not getting benched at the end of games and we aren’t complaining about him here. No, of course he’s not the only one, but he’s held to a higher standard as a max player and 3rd star. Even so I don’t hold him to a crazy high standard, I wouldn’t even say I hold him to a higher standard than I did Schröder, they’re very similar in that he was also a really bad passer and an overrated defender.

    It is what it is now, this is our team, so I’m really hoping someone can get through to him that it’s time to change his game or he’s in real trouble. Some podcast compares it to Iverson’s final years, and I can totally see that. He can choose to adjust like Melo has and save his career, or he can go out doing what he’s done with a whimper like Iverson.
     
  9. pika1708

    pika1708 - Lakers Starter -

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    Whataboutism is not a good way to argue. We were not talking about Lebron or AD. You said Westbrook had effort. I said no and explained why. LeBron and AD's effort is independent of Russ's effort.

    I understand if you haven't been watching the games, we all have other stuff to do. No harm
     
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  10. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    Asking people if they actually watch games isn’t a good way to start your argument either. It implies that my opinion is completely uninformed. You must have missed my sarcasm in my response. I watch every game that I can and have done so for over 35 years. I am going to guess that I’ve seen a lot more Lakers games in my time than yourself. It’s a bit insulting to begin that way. I’ve missed about three games this season so yes, I watch the games.

    Look at what I said, I never said Russ gives his all on D. He doesn’t. In fact he never has. That might be a major factor why he hasn’t won a championship yet despite the fact that he’s been an MVP, a multiple time All Star, the NBA all time triple double leader and a future HOFer.

    I also never said he’s giving ALL OUT effort because he doesn’t on D.

    But to dismiss his whole season as NOT giving effort is ridiculous. He has been giving effort. He’s averaging 18, 7 and 7. That’s something when he’s sharing the ball with Lebron. I’ve seen him trying this season although the results are mixed of course and lately he sucks. But I don’t find that for lack of trying. He wanted to make it work here.

    I’m just not into the scapegoating that’s going on for Westbrook. He is who he is and these guys knew that and wanted him here. Now he gets all the crap when AD and Lebron are the leaders and have each shown plenty less than their full capabilities also. Sure they deserve leeway but Russ gets none? The FO gets leeway for their crappy roster construction? I will give Vogel some leeway because a third of the team was missing or injured much of the season.
     
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  11. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    I totally agree with you Weezy. I’m bummed that Westbrook didn’t work out. Common sense and the pundits were right in this case. But I don’t like the scapegoating and demeaning of Russ for this. I like Russ a helluva lot more than Schroder that’s for sure.

    Russ’s lack of self awareness is a definite issue. I agree with that. I wish he would just focus more on D, and continue to create assists and to board as he does but not be hung up on scoring unless he’s with the second unit. He is stubborn and he needs to change if he’s going to fit. But again I think he has wanted to fit here and that he has been trying to do so. Staples people are booing him for his terrible shooting and I think it’s kind of petty. I felt that way when they booed Kwame as well. The only Laker I felt deserved getting booed was Smush and I don’t remember that ever happening when he was here.

    Russ is an LA kid. I watched him play at UCLA and have always been a fan of his despite his flaws. I’m rooting for him even now not against him.
     
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  12. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    I'm rooting for Russ to fall flat on his face and be out of here during the summer.

    Yes, I'm that petty.

    Bye bye Russ.
     
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  13. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

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    That cursed this season lol buffoon
     
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  14. Pioneer10

    Pioneer10 - Lakers All Star -

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    This is a good take and I respect it.
    I guess for me though what I see is a guy who cost the Lakers a ton of assets and yes the team shares the blame for this as they are the ones who traded for him but that was on the condition he would go all out and fit his role.

    He hasn't done that: I see a bunch of players who have a hard time scoring when he is as defenses are literally begging him to shoot and try to take over the game. He is not willing to cut hard, move, or do anything that would counter this defense. On defense and the glass he doesn't box out and he's a terrible defender.

    So we have a situation where you can't win with him and now because of the lack of talent you can't win without him

    I'm praying for buyout of Cory Joseph and Gary Harris so we have at least NBA quality backcourt players and Russ is simply sent home. While a good guy from all accounts, he is a toxic player on the court that has demoralized this team with his lack of effort in the little parts of the game that a title contender needs
     
  15. Bryant

    Bryant - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I think the decline of Iverson is a bit different given that he had the skill set to be a contributor, it's just that his ego wouldn't accept that he isn't a star.

    While there is a personality aspect with WB, that's not the big reason why he is a has been at this point.

    He made his pay day and career by basically relying on his athleticism, which is now dwindling and he can't blow by anyone constantly anymore. Combine that with a lack of other basketball skills, you have someone who's past it.
     
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  16. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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  17. FrontOfJersey22

    FrontOfJersey22 - Lakers All Star -

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    Bawhahahahahahahaha!!!
    I was like, “what the hell was that for?!?!” Watching that move.
    Such an appropriate analogy.
     
  18. FrontOfJersey22

    FrontOfJersey22 - Lakers All Star -

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    I’m not expecting Russ to change for the betterment of the team.
    I am, however, expecting more drama between him and the coaching staff.
    Goooo Lakers!!!!!
     
  19. pika1708

    pika1708 - Lakers Starter -

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    Now this is a discussion :D
    I see my comment came out the wrong way I wanted, I agree it was not a good conversation starter. It was meant like bar talk, a rhetorical question because I believe it's blatantly visible his lack of effort. I was also being sarcastic. I don't think it did any good to have a healthy discussion and will have that in mind in the future.

    I can see that you've been following and being a fan of Russ since college which explains your views and attachment to him.
    I invite you to lock-in on him for periods of the game and watch all his movements for a few minutes straight each game. You'll be able to identify many situations where his failures are mostly to lack of effort, imo. I do that often with some players, specially new ones in the team, when I want to understand them better, that's why I love Reaves (or Caruso), because he almost always does the right thing and you can see he is fully connected to the game and everything that's happening. With Russ I get the opposite vibe, he just disconnects randomly for no reason. On rebounds is the worst. He only cares if he gets them, he absolutely doesn't care if our team rebounds. It pisses me off

    I really stopped giving weight to his overall stats, because following a game I can see those stats don't impact the game. Just like Drummond. I don't think they reflect effort, imo, but rather the way he approaches the game that maximizes those kind of stats. This is really subjective so I understand different views, but I'm strongly confident that this is the true due to other available stats that measure that impact/value of PRA


    I COMPLETELY agree with everything else you wrote in this and the following post. He is who he is, everyone knew that, he has made efforts to adjust and he's definitely just one of MANY reasons for this failed season. As I said before and will continue to say, this year was a bust because of Lebron's impact outside of the court.
    However, with the lack of effort I've identified and the lack of self-awareness he's displayed lately, I really don't see how he can be a positive contributor to the success of our team when he has so many flaws on his game/fit to the team to work on
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2022
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  20. Cookie

    Cookie The Dame of Doom Staff Member

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    I wish AD and Bron would have acted like the video against the G league Portland team we just lost to.
     
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