Vogel is a good coach but he is in a bad spot. It would be difficult to cut Russ's minutes but at the same time he is also going to lose his job if he doesn't. Something has to change, if it isn't the lineups and playing time it will be the coach at the end of the year or sooner. We are playing too bad for something to not happen. It is ugly terrible basketball. If it were me I had rather be fired for doing the obvious right thing and cutting his minutes and not playing him during crunch time. If there is anyone left that can't see that I would be surprised. I think it would enhance his credibility to show he cares enough about how the team is doing to take action. Sometimes you got to stand up and take the heat.
there's also the long game to think about: if he benches russ and we don't get better, he's pissed literally everyone off. i think the best we can hope for is some scaling back of russ--at least taking the ball out of his hands on key possessions. but again, i feel like everyone has to agree it's failed before even that's allowed.
I agree but is there anyone left that can't see it has failed?? It has failed like few things ever have.
i'm sure russ doesn't think so. and it would be mighty uncomfortable in the locker room. i feel like if nunn can get back, vogel can at least sort of justify to russ that they need to get a look at him before roster decisions are made, and maybe that buys us some time (fewer russ minutes).
Can we Jedi mind trick Russ, "this is not the game you want to play any longer and must retire and enjoy life ... Dancing With The Stars .... stuff like that". "Immediately".
Unfortunately the optics behind benching Russ would be poor. Vogel is in a tough spit with Russ. He should play Dawite more, that's squarely on Vogel. With Deandre being unplayable and Ludabrow being out, that makes us smaller by default. But limiting Dawite's minutes just doesn't make sense.
The optics of playing Russ and losing one game after another because of it is pretty bad too. I do understand your point but this can only go so long and for me we are there. I'm not even saying bench him. Just cut him back and play him at least important times. He could even start but he can't finish.
I just want to add that I don't dislike Russ. I was one of the ones that wanted him here this time thinking it would work. Right now he is embarrassing himself terribly and causing us to lose games. The entire organization is suffering because we don't want to hurt his feelings seems a bit much.
Frank Vogel is Mr. PC. This isn't like the Phil Jackson vs Kobe or Gary Payton thing. Kobe and Phil butted heads because they were the same people. GP struggling in the Finals in 2004 was just that. He was good all year until then and there wasn't any time to really be frustrated like we are with Westbrook with him. Plus, Fisher was playing on one leg, Phil would have sat Payton had Fish been healthy. Fox was out, Horace Grant was out, Mailman eventually ran out of gas with his knee. So injuries do play a part like they have then, now as well. Frank Vogel would need to sit Westbrook but they got rid of Rondo. Rondo could have at least covered some minutes. Lakers are wasting Monk and Reaves ability to play their roles. Same with Melo. They were here to ignite the offense and they have but the defense and fundamentals has been s***. Does Vogel wake up and finally tell the players in practice, hey look, I'm changing s*** up because this ain't working. If you have a problem with it, find me a better solution and I'll implement it. I feel like I'm rambling because I'm just surprised at how bad this team is. Everything went wrong and it still doesn't make sense.
No one can make any team with Westbrook work. Vogel will be fired because he can’t make it work like any other coach.
The only way you can turn this around is to *try* the 2019/2020 approach, play big, play inside - out, play your defensive guys, become a defense 1st team and hit just enough 3s to win the game. 2019/2020 Lakers were 22nd in the regular season in 3 point shooting and 12th out of 16 teams in 3 point proficiency in the playoffs. Right now they miscalculated big time in letting Lebron play center as the rebounding, interior defense and overall defensive effort has gotten worse. How the heck do the Kings score 70 points in the paint?? Our team is in desperate need of defense, rebounding and intimidation at the rim and they don't play Dwight! WHY??? Because that would clog the paint for Lebron and they're hell bent on having open space and lanes for him Also keep in mind the Lakers have the fastest pace in the league right now so Lebron and the team's stats are quite inflated because they literally have more possessions. On the other end we have more possessions of bad defense going on. They were wrong in hoping if Lebron can go off offensively it will benefit the team for a winning cause and it backfired big time. Lebron doesn't have a reliable pull up game, mid-range or post up game and quite often needs the ball in his hands to dribble in a spaced court, get into rhythm so he can do his stepbacks or drive to the lane. There is no variety in his mode of scoring. His offensive results have come at the expense of many players being bumped off their comfort zone or the flow of offense. Other teammates have to be spot up shooters who are low-usage guys (like Monk or Melo) to really thrive playing next to Lebron's style. There's a reason why other superstars balked at playing with him because he's a difficult dude to play with on the court because of his style. Going back to CLE days guys low uage 3 point shooters really thrived...Delonte West, Damon Jones, Sasha Pavlovic, Donyell Marshall, Daniel Gibson...Heat days...Battier, Mike Miller, Chalmers, James Jones ...CLE 2nd round...Channing Frye, JR Smith, Korver, Shumpert, K-Love....2020 LA...KCP, Green, Caruso Kieff. So many of his teammates just don't need the ball in their hands, they're content playing hard on both ends and just waiting for the ball to come so they can shoot and space the floor. Right now Lebron is accumulating the points, the defense has gotten awful and the team is further away from a championship. They have to go back to what worked in 2019/2020 and they need to get away from being Lebron-centric literally and figuratively. I believe Lebron led the league in assists, he got his teammates involved, we were deliberate on offense and definitely in the mix for a title, they have to try that.
Society seems to flounder "blame" so much that it seeps into all things like sports and other occupations. How bout blame the people who cause this? Like Russell Westbrook. He is the one sucking a**. The players should be at fault not the ones who are trying to make it work and HAVE made it work at the highest level in the not so far past.
it won't happen, but i wonder if russ volunteering to go the bench could save the season. let him play 25mpg and murder opposing benches (i'm assuming this is still possible?). put a stronger defensive unit out there to start and finish games. this has been my point--i just don't think this is workable at the highest level. and yes, i think vogel will be fired, and it will do nothing. except maybe allow the next coach to do things vogel can't, like bench russ. this was my other point. we're not luring spoelstra or kerr away. we had our shot at monty williams but didn't move fast enough. i'm just not sure there are obviously better coaches available. one thing that has made this year different than 2012 is that we didn't fire the coach. i think part of that is what i said a few posts back (and what players have said multiple times): vogel has kept the locker room from exploding. i mean: this is a s*** show. everyone agrees. the players know it, and they're upset and embarrassed, too. usually, that leads sixers-like finger pointing, and so far, that hasn't happened here. it's one of the few positives about the season, and it has been directly attributed to vogel and lebron.
