Brandon Ingram Discussion: He Is Who We Thought He Could Be

Now that Lonzo is playing better, I'm more convinced than ever that we overpaid for AD

Ingram cost the Pels the game with his fourth quarter choking... but even with a bad game he produced 28 points and 12 rebounds
Lonzo had a triple double (ETA correction: he only had 9 assists)
Hart had a 16 point 10 rebound double double

And that doesn't include what our #4 pick would have produced

I don't care how good AD is, he can't replicate the production of three good players every night and I don't think Lonzo and BI have reached their ceilings.

If Popovich was coaching the Pels they'd be a playoff team.

If they traded Jrue for Capela or Drummond they might still make the playoffs.

We keep saying what if had another scorer or a defensive wing but ignore that we actually had them.

We had them and we could have signed AD next season anyway to play with our core.

 

I said could have not would have. Would have is stating as fact. Could have is presenting the possibility.

I'm still wholeheartedly rooting for our team, but it's frustrating when I see the holes. It's frustrating to see LBJ aging while the kids are growing.

LBJ and AD are doing their best but it's going to require LBJ finding some reserve from ten years ago to drag this team to the title.

 

^ semantics. The whole premise of your previous post was that we overpaid and saying we "could have [signed] AD anyway" seems to indicate a strong likelihood of that taking place, even though recent history suggest that would have been a very small possibility.

If it's taking LBJ's 10 yr old reserves to drag this team to the title, then we would have been skipping his title window entirely had we not acquired AD. In the end, this is the same exact discussion you've had here 1,000 times and I'm going to go out on a limb and say once again, 0 minds have been changed.

 

Things are always in flux. Otherwise, why shouldn't we lock in our comments at the beginning of the season and have a computer script repeat them over and over no matter what changes?

Ball's resurgence changes the equation for me combined with our recent difficulties.

I'm sorry if I can't just follow the party line but if we starting defeating the difficult teams you'd find me more content.

 

I don’t even know how people still root for the Lakers tbh




I hope this story ends well for us. It was a calculated risk for sure, but how cool is it to see our draft picks coming of age? Our draft team is fantastic.

I do miss the young guys. I’d actually rather watch their development feeling like they were “our guys” from the start vs a team of mercenaries I feel no connection to. Besides Kuz and Caruso, I have no attachment to anybody here.

I definitely understand rolling the dice on a Lebron and AD duo and not turning back, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t keeping an eye on “our guys” in NO.

I still hope BI finds his way home.

 

I disagree with this. I like most of our guys quite a bit. Lebron has stepped up and AD is awesome. I hope we can keep him and if we do, I see no difference between him and Kareem in terms of his potential career with the Lakers. Consider me a huge fan at this point. Competing for championships is what it is all about. Our team, the way it was, was not going anywhere. Even if we did NOT go with Lebron and Davis, changes had to be made. We had too many guys unable to develop who were too willing to party down in LA. A few of them needed to be shaken, not stirred. I agree with you on BI, would love to see him come back here someday but I doubt it happens. I thought he was a potential stud before and I really think he is now. Knowing that, I would still trade him for AD again, period. The Lakers have historically built their championship rosters on trades. They traded for Wilt, Kareem, Thompson, Scott, McAdoo, Pau, Shaq, Fox, the list goes on and on. Plus even Kobe was traded for. Argue the minutia all you want, our history is built on solid trades. Without them, we have ZERO rings!! Argue it all you want, it's the facts. I want rings, team first, players second. In LA if you aren't winning rings, you are not going to last, doesn't matter how good you are.

 

No.

pretty much what wino said. I didn’t enjoy watching the product the past few years. It wasn’t good basketball, and it wasn’t going to lead to contention.

NO’s only shot is if Zion can stay healthy and be all nba. We had no Zion coming. We had more 12th place finishes coming post-lebron.

 

I get it for sure, but we play ugly basketball. I rarely enjoy watching us play these days. Even though we were losing in previous seasons, we had some exciting young players to root for. While most of the time I'm with you 100% and would prefer winning over losing, turns out how you win matters. Today I'd probably enjoy watching the style of ball that NO plays over how we play, but I don't watch other teams. But I'm happy for our players over there, and wish them much success.

Regarding our current team:

I'm not that impressed with AD. He's very skilled but he's soft and injury prone. He can be shut down by inferior players, and that's disturbing.

Never been a Lebron fan, although I freely admit this is the most likable version he's been of himself in his entire career. Neither of those guys are clutch closer types. There is no DWade or Kyrie to bail Lebron out right now.

The rest?

Danny Green
KCP
blah blah blah blah blah blah


Kuzma
Caruso

I guess some of it is sentimental, and some of it is pure dislike for how we play. I understand both sides. We might have the record of a 60+ win team, but IMHO, we don't really play like it. Too many flaws to be excited about the playoffs when you lay eggs at the wrong time.

Now with Kobe gone, I hope they give me a reason to want to watch. We've been spoiled by the best players in the history of the game, and I actually find watching AD and Lebron unsatisfactory. How crazy is that?

 

LBJ and or the two elites was supposed to be our Zion.

The plan was always the two elites plus the core.

Not two elites and no core.

 

Our kids weren't ready if we really wanted to take advantage of what might be Lebron's last elite year.

They come out of college mostly too early to really understand the game. They are too green. So if you are going hunting for seasoned vets that are more effective, more professional, more reliable, and understand the game, I get shipping the kids out. Would have loved to have kept BI, but that was the price of admission for AD. Once we toyed with the idea of 3 stars and wasted time on Clippersnake, we really missed the boat on other good players available.

Rob put together a solid roster with the cards he was dealt for sure.

I watched the greatest Dodgers infield for their entire careers as they came up from the minors. Favorite player was Garvey at the time. Something special about grooming your own kids, and we've never really gotten to see that play out in that way. Yes we had Kobe from day 1, but 6-10 draft picks learning together? I'd have handled losing a little longer to watch that. But eff Lavar, he had to go.

 

I get the LBJ part... I really do.

And I like AD.

People seem to think I hate these guys and I don't. LBJ is playing amazing but he's just getting too old to do it himself and AD is doing his thing which is play good defense and score well but he just can't close... at least not yet.

I also see the same frustrating mistakes in New Orleans... Ingram playing extremely well one quarter and then bricking the next... Zo making three or four shots in a row then throwing up an air ball but that is to be expected of 22 and 21 year old players.

I was shutting up more when we were winning but now that the team has come back to earth, I see people all over social media straining to find an answer when it was there all along.

It was probably one too many trade assets gone.

Now, I'm still hoping we get Collison... I'm hoping Bradley starts hitting shots with regularity... I'm hoping we get our shooters involved... I'm hoping Kuz catches fire... we still can win.

But it's going to take using the three point, D'Antoni approach because we don't have the wing defenders. Even Iggy would be far from a sure thing at his age.

For all of the trades to be worth it we have to win this season... I just don't see LBJ able to pull another dominant season out of his 36 year old body next year. Our scouts are just going to have to comb the depths of the draft and find a Jimmy Butler or Siakam like diamond in the rough.

 

that was a really dumb plan. glad we got out before it failed. we'd be the knicks right now.

unless you meant the kawhi swing, which only happened after we traded for a second elite.

 

but we made moves to get a 3rd elite by clearing the cupboard. That's the part that is easy to question now since it didn't work. We gave up a crapton of assets no matter how you slice it.

However, we also got some great guys to sign on the cheap to be here, so I think it has more than penciled out. But we all want our cake and to eat it too, so it's easy to assume we'd still get those free agents and have kept our assets. I just doubt it would be true.

 

a team built to lebron strenth shouldnt be much different for ad if hes a "super-star" a super star can lead any team, if we're labeling AD a super star i expect the same results from him as I do of James or any other "super-star"....as for "hating" part. well you been discreting Ingram from season start, using the "well they're losing premise" as facts which is true but when I did it against AD you blame roster construction, why isnt Ingram getting that luxury, not like anyone is saying Ingram is on ad lvl, unless its sentimeat lol

 

AD produced huge and won more than he should have.

i don't believe a superstar should be able to lead anyone anywhere. in fact, only three superstars in the modern era have led their team to the finals without another allstar on the squad, i believe (lebron, kobe, dirk). most lone stars top out at bottom-rung playoff team--this includes some incredibly talented players. you need to build around your star. if you traded AD for harden, houston wouldn't be as good. but that's not because harden is a better basketball player than AD--it's because they built the team to his strengths over years of roster churn. NO didn't do a good job around AD. i think when the time comes, we can do better.

as for BI losing, it's just facts. i said it when he was with us, too--it seemed like when he played better, it didn't necessarily do much for us. seems similar in NO, tbh. so what does that mean? is it that the style of play that suits his stats isn't conducive to winning (see: lavine, zach) or is it a bunch of other factors that will work themselves out? we'll see. i'm glad we get to see it with AD on our team and BI on their team, though.

 

ad lost in new orleans too but you excused it with roster construction

 

he took them to the playoffs twice, once by the same age ingram is with a comparable supporting cast.

 

AD had the clear advantage of weighing over 150 lbs though, so how is this even a fair discussion?