Random Other NBA Teams Discussion

Impressive no doubt.
To the guy above me. You might have heard about this guy named Kobe Bryant, you know... Harden's padawan? He did it Not bad for a 3rd best SG in history (only behind James and Mike).

 

I thought I couldn't like him any more... Silly me.

 

Time to change your sig Zen.

 

Not yet. Championship or bust.

 

Thanks for correcting me... I remembered the previous season when he scored like 50 and then 81 mixed with a bunch of 40 plus games and forgot about the following year. But yes, this is the company we are talking about. It's not normal even adjusting for the free throws.

 

the number of 50 point games by anyone is unprecedented right now. the league is set up for big individual scoring games from guards in ways it never has been.

 

2006
Kobe 35
AI 33
LBJ 31
Arenas 29
Wade 27
Pierce 27
Dirk 27
Melo 27
Redd 25
Ray Allen 25

2019

Harden 39
Giannis 31
Luka 30
Trae 28
Beal 27
AD 27
KAT 27
Dame 26
LBJ 26
Kawhi 26
BI 25

According to you the game is set up for unnatural scoring, yet the numbers are roughly the same as they've always been. Except for Harden... where even if you remove his four cheating free throws... he's still at 35 PPG.

Are you going to say the skill level has declined? Because it looks pretty similar to me.

 

It’s not as simple as let’s look at PPG...

Pace - Faster pace
FGA/g - More shots
3PA/g - almost doubled

If you want to say better 3 point shooters ok that’s fine. If you want to say unprecedented scoring and then say things look comparable that is not right.

 

Exactly. I won’t crunch the numbers to determine the adjusted, accurate output apples to apples, but here are the numbers.
Kobe 2006:
27.2 fga/g
6.5 threes/game @ 34.7%
10.2 fts/g

Harden 2020:
24.7 fga/g
14 threes/g @ 36.3%
13.6 fts/g

Yeah, if Kobe shot double the threes, even at a slightly worse % and shot about 4 more ftas/g he’d be averaging quite a bit.

That’s only the quantitative data though. What about the qualitative observations that hardens ref baiting antics don’t only result in 4 more fts. They result in him being impossible to guard, putting the other team in the penalty, good defenders in foul trouble and defenses having to play more conservatively.

If Kobe utilized and got rewarded for using antics like harden resulting in handcuffed defenders, while launching twice as many 3s, then we’d have apples to apples.

 

How about a baseball analogy.

Before Babe Ruth started hitting home runs... no one cared about them. He started hitting them, and baseball and the country went through a paradigm shift. The home run becomes the centerpiece of the game. Did people say, oh Ruth is unfair because he's negating the beauty of meticulously advancing the runner by working the count, drawing a walk and then stealing or sacrificing the runner to second, then scoring on a single or sacrifice fly?

No. They didn't care about these tactics. They were glad he hit home runs because it was the fastest way to score the most runs.

Same with this paradigm shift. The league has gone from 80 FGA per game to 90 FGA per game and some teams shoot 50% threes. This point is correct

There are more attempts because of pace and the shot clock being reset to 14.

Yet is Harden part of the pack who has benefited from the new rules? No... he's still an outlier even within the context of the faster pace. Even with the threes. Even if you subtract four foul shots due to cheating.

Compare Ichiro to Barry Bonds.

In 2001 his rookie year he hits .350 gets 242 hits, steals 56 bases, wins Gold Glove which is for best defensive player, wins Silver Slugger which is best offensive player.

Bonds hits .328, hits 73 home runs, steals 13 bases, wins Silver Slugger.

Who is considered the best player? Is it Ichiro who surpasses the older Bonds in hitting average, speed and defense? (Bonds was good at both stealing and defense when he was younger)

Nope... Bonds is considered the best player... until he was later suspected of taking steroids. Many who don't care still think he's better.

My point is that no one says Bonds wasn't the best player because he hit more home runs than anyone. They say he wasn't because he took steroids.

Doesn't matter that Ichiro was better hitting for average, speed, defense. All people cared about was the home runs.

What is the difference between the baseball shift from Ty Cobb's method of stealing and hitting for average... and Ruth's of simply bombing them over the fence (yes, I know Ruth was also a good hitter for average and a great pitcher to boot) versus MJ scoring 2 pointers and Harden and D'Antoni changing the paradigm?

Does it matter if you are aesthetically more pleasing and more athletic if someone else can get more points another way?

Is Dominique Wilkins better than Larry Bird or Magic Johnson?

Again I disagree with Harden's flopping and arm pulling... but some of you are going to far in dismissing what he is doing.

Like it or not this is a paradigm shift, and those who adapt will thrive and those who don't may be left behind.

If AD can get his FT shooting up to high eighties. I see no reason why he can't get his three point shot to 35%... and later get it to Harden territory.

Look how BI has improved when no one thought he could shoot threes or FTs particularly well.

Instead of getting angry with Harden... we should have LBJ and AD continue to shoot threes instead of long midrange... and once AD gets over 35% especially with volume... he truly will be the most dominant force in basketball.

 

Dude is the only player i know of, that has more made FT's than FG's. He's skilled, he's fast, he's strong, nice handles, can get a shot off whenever he wants... but he get's sooooo many BS bail out calls, he doesn't play D, and he's FUGLY. He's the last player in the whole NBA i could root for.

 

Kawhi had 19 FT yesterday and he is better than Harden in any statistical categories.And Harden will score 70 today because Westbrook is not playing.

 

Imagine the sheer difficulty of scoring 30 let alone 50 with Westbrook on your team... lol

 

KD was quite OK at it.

 

Fun fact... KD has 6 career 50 point games

Harden has 23 including 5 this season and one 49 point game.

 

Would you pick Harden over KD?

 

Pre Achilles KD... no

 

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/...ard-kyrie-irving-james-harden-dangelo-russell

but by all means, continue erecting your shrine.

 

Unless you think players from earlier eras were inferior players, it is significant that proportionally Harden still scores more than the rest of the league.

Your argument would make sense if Harden was being praised for being one of the pack. He's exceeded the pack... even if you remove 4 FTs a game for cheating.

Why aren't the better players simply copying him and scoring more? Do you believe they choose to let him beat their numbers?

Do you actually think they say to themselves... you know what, I could score 40 a night... but I refuse to play like Harden

Give me a break... they couldn't even stand up to China if you think it's some kind of moral stand on their part

All I've said is he's a good player. And yes, they should stop his cheating.