LABron James Discussion: Olympics MVP

Will Barton is 5th on that list. What dual purpose? RPMs are only relevant when you talk about automobiles. How many times can one person be so wrong and still not know?

These analytic stats are garbage. They mean NOTHING!!!!! Ask the A's, ask the Dodgers how many world series titles they have because of analytics.

Harden is a scorer and nothing else. I don't care what anyone or any number says about him. He will NEVER win a title as the #1 guy and the fact that he has an MVP is an embarrassment that keeps on giving when it comes to the MVP award in the NBA.

 

But PPP!!!

 

James Harden career 2 pt FG% 44.3%
Kobe Bryant career 2 pt FG% 44.7%

James Harden finishing at the rim 63.5%
Kobe Bryant finishing at the rim 63.4%

James Harden free throw shooting 85.9%
Kobe Bryant free throw shooting 83.7%

James Harden 3 pt FG% 36.4%
Kobe Bryant 3 pt FG% 32.9%

James Harden career usage vs assists per game 30.4/6.2
Kobe Bryant career usage vs assists per game 31.8/4.7
(Kobe had the ball in his hands more but Harden had more assists, i.e tendency to be a black hole)

James Harden rebounds per game 5.2
Kobe Bryant rebounds per game 5.2

James Harden steals per game 1.6
Kobe Bryant steals per game 1.4

Conclusion... Harden may not have Kobe's skill... but he isn't the trash some of you claim him to be.

 

James Harden: 4 complete b******* calls per game
Kobe Bryant: 1 complete b******* call per game

James Harden: 3 arm grapples per game
Kobe Bryant: 0 arm grapples per career

James Harden: 0 defense played
Kobe Bryant: 12X all nba defense

sorry, cheater isn't kobe. and he's not close.

 

Come on man. Harden is not in the same universe as Kobe when it comes to finishing at the rim. So how could his finishing % be just above? As has been pointed out numerous times, the preferential treatment from refs (which is documented and proven) affects how players challenge at the rim. Like Lebron now, refs used to let players hack Kobe because he was so good that he could finish through it.

Usage vs. APG? Maybe an iso-centric offense, compared to a post-centric ball movement offense affects this. I don't have time, but feel free to check Kobe's usage vs. APG his one year under D'Antoni. I don't know how it compares, but that's a better comparison than raw numbers that can't account for important variables.

Rebounds per game? How many shots are attempted on average in a Rockets game versus Kobe's Lakers teams? Again, I don't know the answer, but that's important in comparing these stats.

Steals per game? What I learned from that comparison is that Harden gambles a lot more than Kobe did. Video evidence proves over and over that Harden is a bad and uninterested defender. He is good at playing angles and going for steals, but he's an awful defender as a whole.

There is no such thing as a Kobe vs Harden comparison. Harden isn't even close.

 

% finishing is increased by the bs fouls. the bs fouls erase both turnovers and missed shot attempts. his layup and 3pt% are inflated by it. his TO rate, which is high, is underestimated due to the officiating as well.

don't tell his biggest fan, though.

we're also in a very different era. what if kobe got to play pg and jack up step back threes 10 times a game? big scoring games (50+) from individuals are WAY up currently. there was an article about this recently. it's because players are encouraged to do things that would have been shameful just a decade ago--volume three point attempts chief among them.

kobe could average 45 right now, no joke.

 

It like you don't listen lol

Nobody said he's trash. But he won't get hid due until he quits being a flopping cheater.

James Harden flops per game 112
Kobe Bryant flops per game 0

 

I'm still waiting for the evidence or reason why the league officials and refs would conspire to elevate this plain looking chubby guy with a beard in a small market (OKC, not Houston)

Makes zero sense from a marketing perspective.

Again, I've said a hundred times Kobe was a more skilled player. Harden has found a hack and the league should close it... but even so he's taking four more shots than Kobe did his highest scoring season and two more shots than Jordan did during his. And proportionally his scoring reflects those shots.

Jordan took 12 FTA during his 37 ppg season
Kobe took 10 FTA during his 35 ppg season
Harden is taking 14 FTA during his current 39 ppg

so if you take away Harden's four extra attempts... he's still scoring what Kobe did.

 

No.

 

Again, flawed comparisons. Harden is taking more Free Throws, but where do most of his shots come from? He chucks away from 3 most nights yet averages more FT than both Jordan and Kobe? If anything, you’re proving the point of others.

I don’t know about other posters, but I never thought it was a conspiracy. I think Harden started with his bush league antics, it sort of just escalated to the point where refs assumed they were fouls, and they have too much ego to admit they’re being fooled by this guy.

 

[Insert Vasashi stats and word play here]

 

and it has nothing to do with anything. i don't know why, nor do i care. i care THAT. that he's treated differently than basically any other player in the league or ever.

i'm arguing that a) individuals are scoring more now and b) a larger proportion of harden's calls are unearned.

 

I pointed out Harden ranking 2nd in RPM... then someone called BS on that stat (which I agree) so I simply pointed out his meat and potatoes stats.

Apparently he ranks favorably in regular stats like TS% and he ranks favorably in advanced analytic stats but he's been propped up by an NBA paralyzed by inaction and refs who are too proud to stop calling fouls when it would be so easy to do so at any given minute.

Does this about cover it?

Oh, and greater players including one who is considered one of the highest BBIQ in NBA history... actually was third in 3PT shot attempts then inexplicably stopped taking as many. Why did he stop? Could it be that he wasn't as clever as D'Antoni and Harden?

Anyone can see that taking 3 point shots is smart basketball.

Taking contested 2 pt shots is as outdated thinking as redcoats lining up in columns to battle as opposed to guerrilla warfare tactics with camouflage (that was considered unsporting as well)

I keep hoping AD and LBJ improve their 3 pt shot. Considering AD is shooting high eighties from the line... no reason he shouldn't be able to develop the KD like three. Don't tell me you would find that unsporting. You'd all find that awesome as I would, and I hope it happens.

Threes for AD... not long midrange anymore.

 

lol, war analogies for sports. why do you watch sports if you don't like their purpose? serious question. if cheating is ok, there are plenty of things you can get into. "finding a hack" isn't laudable in sports. it is in war. it is in business (i guess?).

nobody said taking threes wasn't sporting. they said it is part of why harden's numbers look so great. people weren't allowed to do this before. not even kobe. lebron upped his AFTER it became accepted.

why can't you just argue actual points instead of making stuff up?

 

Remember the scene in Indiana Jones where swordsman shows off his fancy moves and then Indy just shoots him?

Does anyone react with disgust to that scene? Did you?

I don't like cheating... Iike taking steroids or stealing plays or signs. This is a guy who is doing what he does in plain sight and it's up to the league to stop him. Kobe used to elbow people in the face all the time to clear room... so people would be afraid to guard him tight. This is the same as chin music pitches to protect the plate... is this cheating as well?

Again I've said Kobe is more skilled player... yet you continue to throw shade by saying things like I like cheating... or making stuff up.

Pushing the limits of what the ref will allow has always been part of the game. How many times did Kobe travel on his way to the hoop?

Do you call him a cheater? Would I call you a cheater for admiring Kobe even though he throws elbows and travels? No.

I want them to close this loophole too... but I can't fault Harden for taking what they give him.

 

uh, who cares and how is it possibly relevant?

but you do. on more than one occasion, you've admired harden's ability to cheat.

kobe's swingthrough move annoyed me, and the league changed the rules, like the next week after he started doing it. he was suspended for an "unnatural basketball act" for following through onto manu's face. meanwhile, when harden is being denied the ball, he gets to literally jump on top of someone's back--and they get called for the foul.

it's still cheating even if it's allowed by the officials.

if you like harden, you like cheating. or you're a houston rockets fan, in which case i can forgive it because fandom is weird. i briefly rooted for karl malone and am still washing myself.

wow. there's one person in this debate who has continually moved goalposts and constructed nonsensical strawmen. you've already had to abandon a few because they were so obviously ridiculous. the indiana jones defense may take the cake, though.

was he doing it systematically and on purpose?

and it's not a loophole. his stepback is a loophole. loopholes can be exploited by everyone equally. he arm grabbing and shoving retreating defenders are simple violations of the rules that are called on everyone else. his head snapping and dive-taking are intentional acts to trick officials (the arm grabbing is, too, for that matter).

 

and a Kobe vs Harden fight has broken out in Lebron's thread