Psh, Kobe used to have 47 point games on back to backs after walking 15 miles to the arena in a snow storm. These damn millennials, can’t have a monster game without there being 3 days between games.
We weren’t far apart, but this is where you lose me again. None of our players are Klay, Iggy, or Green. Klay is a a multi-time all star, he’s one of the best shooters of all time. Iggy is a former all-star, Finals MVP and has always had a true nba body, and Green is a former DPOY. Trading Zo, Ingram, and Kuz or #4 for AD does not equate to this. For one that trio hasn’t won a thing yet, as much as I like and believe in them. I’d say trading them for AD is more comparable to trading like..the Bulls young core maybe, LaVine, Markkanen, Dunn type thing. There’s potential there, but they haven’t actually done anything.
If winning is your criteria, what has AD done in that area? He's got immense potential paired next to Lebron, but he hasn't actually done anything either. Similarly, I'm not sure why you are penalizing these kids for not achieving anything at 21-23 years old. I don't see how past or present accolades have anything to do with a value of a player. Honestly, they don't. Currently Iggy's value is closer to Vince Carter (another former allstar) than that of an all-star. Green is a Tier 3 star that is worth much more to the Warriors than any other basketball team. I've seen enough of Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, and Hart to know what they are capable of. Ball and Ingram has shown stretches, not just glimpses or games, to pass the eye test. In my opinion, those two are sure-fire all-stars. You believe otherwise. That's where we can agree to disagree.
Yes, that is where we can agree to disagree. You can’t tell me that you just know those guys will be all-stars and that past accomplishments don’t matter. Davis was IMO the MVP 2 years ago over Harden, that’s what he’s done to answer your question, took a mediocre team to the playoffs in the West. Then he sat out a bunch this year and they don’t make it. Whether you use the eye test, the accomplishments test, any test I can come up with, AD > Zo, BI, Kuz or the 4th pick, the only reason we even have a chance to get him for that is because he asked out or said he’d walk in 2020. Legit top 5-7 NBA superstar > a few really good players, every time. It’s in large part why the Raptors are 1 win away from a title, it’s in large part why the Warriors are in trouble (they don’t have Durant), those are both top 5 NBA players. If AD isn’t that he’s just outside of it.
Honestly, I get where you are coming from. AD is the sure thing and our kids are unproven. That can't be argued. What also can't be argued is that Ingram averaged 27.8/7.5/2.8 on 57 FG% and 53 3P% post all-star break. You may brush that off a fluke but how many other 21 year old players averaged those numbers in a similar stretch? And how many of those players have a similar impact on the defensive end as well? I haven't checked myself, but I'd guess the number is less than 3. To me, that is a good indication that Ingram is one of the top young prospects in the league right now, and assuming that he will develop at the same rate as his peers, it's enough evidence to conclude there is a high probability that he will become an all-star. There really is no logical reason to think otherwise, unless you think there is something that is crippling his chances to develop at the same rate as his peers. Same can be said about Ball. He is one of the best defensive guards in the league. He is an elite passer and rebounder. His intangibles and +/- numbers are matched by less than a handful of other PG's. All of those positives and he's only 21. So what exactly is stopping him from providing a similar impact to Draymond in a few years? Again, I disagree with your take that AD alone is worth more than the sum of Ball, Ingram, Kuz and the #4 pick. I don't think any player is worth more than 4 high lottery players (3 of which are proven and developed talent), and frankly, there's never been a trade that lopsided in NBA history.
Your first point, I actually don’t think that stretch with Ingram is a fluke. I think when he figures out how to start seasons stronger instead of waiting until the ASB to get going, he’s going to be special. But that’s likely 2-4 years away, he’s still not even used to his own body, and we don’t have that kind of time to try and win. I think the fact that he’s seen as someone who is going to probably be very good is the only reason why we have a shot at AD right now, and that’s why I take it, because we have a chance to win right now if we do, vs a big maybe down the line. The goal is always to win a title, always. That’s priority number one, even if winning it sets us back some like it did post-Shaq, that’s the cost sometimes. Lonzo, I like a lot, probably my second favorite Laker to Ingram, I still include him if I have to in the end, but I try to keep him out of the deal as long as possible. Your second point, you read my statement wrong, or maybe I didn’t type it clear enough. I said that having AD to me is better than having Zo, BI, Kuz, OR the #4 pick, not AND the #4 pick. That’s where I draw the line personally. The Pelicans missed their chance to gouge us at the deadline, they don’t get to now. Personally I offer BI, Hart, the #4, future picks, and try and get them to go for that. If it comes down to the final deal and we have to give offer the most we are willing, I offer some combo of Zo, BI, Kuz and the #4, not all. Zo, BI, #4. BI, Kuz, #4. No matter what, I think they want Ingram though, he’s our best piece, and I would hope that remains true regardless of the blood clot, because that seems to be totally over with. If they demand all 4 of those pieces though, I’m with you, I walk away. I try to get Beal for the #4 and Kuz. I try to sign Butler, I go other routes. I said like last week in the AD thread that the #4 isn’t some toss in, that’s a crazy high value piece, in 2007 the #5 pick, Delonte West, and Wally Szczerbiak landed a Ray Allen that averaged over 26 ppg the season before. Sure that was 2 C Bags working to help eachother out and they didn’t have to pay a Laker tax, but still, we shouldn’t have to give up our whole team for AD with one year left on his contract that has demanded a trade, that lowers his value. So yeah, boil it down and we still do agree, Zo, BI, Kuz, #4, too much to give, #4 if it’s Garland or Barrett, or Culver could end up being the best out of all those players, it’s not a throw-in. Again, personally I try to hold onto Zo, or Kuz if they won’t budge off of that, or the #4 if they demand all 3 of those players. Despite Kuz’s percentages last season not being as good as his rookie year he still put up 18.7 ppg and 5.5 boards. Show me some other sophomores that did that sort of thing. That’s Siakam type numbers minus the defensive side of the floor, still incredibly valuable as 6th man. Put it this way, if we don’t trade for AD because the Pelicans ask was too high, and we go into next season with Zo, BI, Kuz, and Garland on this roster, I’m not gonna cry about it. LeBron might, but I won’t, I’ll be excited, especially if we somehow still sign a Kawhi, Kyrie, or even Jimmy Butler.
Ingram played... 6 games after the ASG. If that sample size is enough to not go after AD, God save us
My bad, I misread your post @Weezy and we aren't that far off in terms of who we'd give up for AD. The most I'd offer is either Ball or Ingram plus the rest of our kids. I'm not giving them both Ball+Ingram in any scenario. I think we win the trade if we only lose Ingram, Hart, #4 and future picks. Replacing Hart with Kuz would be a win for both teams, and anything more would be overpaying. And even though I disagree, I understand why you want to maximize the 2 year window with Lebron. I still think we end up a better team, both in the short and long term, with all our kids intact opposed to having just AD, Lebron, and Kuz on the roster. I'd be super excited too if the scenario you mention in your last sentence plays out. The best case scenario would have us winning the trade for AD, on top of signing Butler or Kawhi. PG: Ball SG: Kawhi SF: Lebron PF: Kuzma C: AD LOL we can dream
Come on man, you're better than taking a quote out of context. I never implied that Ingram alone is the reason to not trade for AD. Obviously I'd do a straight swap in a nano-second. FYI though, here are Ingram's splits in the latter half of the season. January (15 games): 19.1 pts, 6.0 reb, 4.1 ast, 55.8 TS% February (9 games): 21.3 pts, 5.8 reb, 3.1 ast, 58.7 TS% March (2 games): 28.0 pts, 7.5 reb, 1.5 ast, 63.7 TS% Yeah I know, what a scrub
You guys haven't reported yet that KD is playing tonight and starting? Saw this on yahoo home page like an hour ago.
Will be interesting to see what he can bring. Almost a month since he has played, doctors say injury could easily be aggravated ,,, but there are not any minutes restrictions?
The officials for Monday night will be James Capers, Jason Phillips and Ed Malloy. And it looks like that could be a bad thing for the Warriors. Capers and Phillips both officiated the Warriors' 118-109 loss to the Raptors in Game 1, and Toronto is 9-1 in playoff games with Capers as a referee, Raptors reporter Kevin Rashidi reported on Monday
Durant looks like..Durant. This thing could easily go 7 now. I really hope he leaves the Warriors, the NBA goes from interesting and wide open to unfair and NBA 2K cheat code when he’s there.
Refs are already incredibly weak so far, one of the worst calls I’ve seen called on VanVleet for touching Curry’s arm like a minute after the ball left his hand, causing Curry to fall to the ground. Basically the equivalent of the Reggie Miller leg kick out bs, but with his arms. VanVleet and Lowry already have 2 fouls each.
I really can’t stand Durant. You’re a foot taller than the guy, and you’ve got 5 former or current all-stars backing you up, yeah, you’re real big and bad
