Brandon Ingram Discussion: He Is Who We Thought He Could Be

Sure you do. It's your circlejerk. I only hope you realize it... and take measures to amend.

 

I disagree. The best predictor of NBA 3PT% is previous NBA 3PT%. When previous NBA 3PT% actually exists, saying anything else borders on LaVar Ball-type random nonsense.

Saying that BI passed up wide open 3s is further proof that his last year's improved 3PT% wasn't impressive is equally jacked. If he had taken the wide-open 3s his % would have worsened? mmkay. Now he may need to, and will, take more shots but the fact that he didn't is somehow proof he wouldn't have made them? Even though he was making the ones where he was covered or at least somewhat covered? Do you hear yourself? Also saying that he shot less 3s should somehow increase his % (especially since you claim he skipped the open ones) is off. For many 3pt shooters increased attempts means little if not actually helping their 3PT%s. Contemporary guys like Klay Thompson, Kyle Korver do just fine with increased attempts.

Btw I don't see anyone putting him in the same sentence as Simmons, Tatum, Mitchell who are already top 20 players in the league. Merely that he hasn't hit his plateau yet. Where is that happening in the forum?

Also, good stats on bad team means nothing is a BS equation. Bad stats on bad team mean nothing either then. Nothing means anything on a bad team.

You mean like the wide-open clutch buzzer-beating game winning 3 against the 76rs?. He will no doubt be asked to take more as his confidence will have grown this year. All aspects of his already good game WILL grow and improve regardless of your disbelief.

 

Personal attacks aren't going to lead to any sort of fruitful discussion. If you disagree, why don't you explain why? I'm more than open to debating my points

 

How bout we watch the games this year and see what transpires following the addition of James and Rondo and the others plus actually see how the young players look after busting their a**** as specifically tasked by the FO over the summer?

 

1. I apologize for not hashing out the argument thoroughly. When people point to BI's potential as an elite shooter - they reference two stats. One is his 3FG% this season, or improvement from last season - but the sample size is too small (will address this more below). The second would be his college 3PT% - and on that point I would argue that a college player's FT% is more predictive of his NBA 3PT%.

2. The fact that he passed up wide open 3's isn't proof he is a good 3 point shooter. No good 3 point shooter does that. It shows that either the coaching staff told BI not to shoot those because of his poor shooting abilities, BI had a lack of confidence in his shot, or both. But either way, what good 3 point shooter in the NBA shoots below 70% from the free throw line - something BI has never done in college or the NBA. The game winner against Phily was amazing, but overall, the dude is not a good shooter. Even Leonard, who most point to the prototypical example of a player being able to improve his shot, was nearly 80% from the line in his first season.

3. Stats on a bad team don't mean anything, that's my point. I think we both agree on that. However you can look to other things, like the way he was playing in the offense. We primarily used him as a slasher and isolation player, but he didn't perform well in either context, and in fact it caused a lot of injuries due to his lack of upper body strength. He needs to play a more perimeter oriented game and more off ball, but again, he hasn't been working on his skills. I fail to see how he plays well with LeBron. He's not a great spot up shooter, not fit yet to be a slasher or isolation scorer, and is below average at facilitating. Obviously, these things can improve, but based on the way he's trying to play, I don't see it happening in 1 or even 2 seasons. The players he is usually compared to were much further along by their 2nd season (Durant was an elite shooter, George/Bulter a solid defender, Leonard nearly won finals MVP and held LeBron to under 45% FG in the finals, and Giannis was much better at finishing at the rim and facilitating).

Again, I think he will slowly improve, and potentially even be an all star in 3-4 seasons. But I don't see him immediately impacting this team in the near future. And I don't see him ever becoming a primary scoring option the Lakers can rely on. I hope he proves me wrong, but the evidence doesn't support it. There's a big risk that as a #2 pick, if he doesn't make a large skill jump in his 3rd season, or stay healthy (ala D'Lo) then he isn't as valuable as a trade asset, and suddenly his agent will be demanding a fat contract extension as he approaches his 4th year.

Versatile wings are becoming a dime a dozen around the NBA. What this team needs is consistent perimeter scoring and elite perimeter defense. I don't think Ingram fills those voids, or will in the next couple of seasons.

He definitely can change things up. I think it starts with Luke's coaching and how he uses him in the offense (tbh - I'm very critical of Luke as a coach, but I'll save my thoughts until I see what offense we choose to run this year). Having him be an off ball cutter on the weakside could help him use his slashing abilities without consistently having to finish through contact. But that remains to be seen...

 

There is no attack. It was with sadness. And while you may be willing to debate your point, I don't think you are likely to change your opinion, so... no, thank you. Enjoy the negativity.

 

Nobody has provided any evidence that BI will become an all-star caliber talent in the next 2 years other than quoting his 2nd year statline and comparing it to other players on different teams, with different roles, in different systems. When I attempt to put these stats in context - I get flamed for being a pessimist. I don't see how any of this will lead to healthy discussion. Especially when nobody is supporting anything other than saying he shot 39% from 3... lol

Just because I think Brandon Ingram won't become a primary option caliber player, doesn't mean I'm negative. Especially when he hasn't done anything to prove he's capable of such a role. I even said repeatedly I think he may become an all star in 3-4 seasons... so again, fail to see how I'm being negative exactly?

 

I'll save everyone the trouble...

 

What is it you want to have happen then? The only opinions that count obviously are those of the Lakers organization. Are you wanting sight unseen with this year's team to be told you win ... you're right? And spend the next 3 months prior to the season to that end, that Brandon Ingram is not the "optimal" player to have? Doesn't sound like much fun to me either.

 

it's useful to draw battle lines in these arguments:

what are the sides of the debate (because i can't figure it out)?

is anyone arguing that ingram will be a superstar?

is anyone arguing that he'll be an average or below average player?

is this all about whether or not he can/should be traded? for whom? when?

unless these things are clear, people are talking over each other, then walking back points.

 

I don’t think Ingram will ever reach his full potential until he can get his chunky butt down to 8% body fat.



That being said, the same guys we rave about for an improved roster in Maginca, who have made over the entire roster in 18 months, sure do seem to really like him and are unwilling to give him up.

I’m not sure why, but at the moment I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I’m unwilling to let anyone pee in my post toasties this morning. It’s going to be a beautiful day.

 

Just want to throw this out there

Feb & March stats - final 13 games (9W-4L) before he got hurt


32.4 MIN
17.7 PT
5.1 REB
5.5 AST
54.5 FG%
51.6 3PT% (16/31 - small sample size yes)
72.3 FT%
61.9 TS%
117 ORtg
110 DRtg

 

Elite 3pt shooters are generally elite ft shooters. Here's a list of exceptions. Not arguing one side or the other. Just food for thought.

https://www.basketball-reference.co...lt=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ft_pct&order_by_asc=Y

 

I am impressed how you supplied that graph highlighted so nicely in yellow for the sake of the 3pt % correlation to FT % conversation, Punk. Noice!

One little nit to pick though if I may. Your AVI now. IMHO I hate the early Lonzo clown hair from last season. Much better once he cut it and started looking more like a serious athlete.



.. ^^^ ... Sorta

 

I stole it from Reddit.
I hate lonzos hair like that too. It was the only artwork I could find with the 3 guys together though.