I like Julius, but I'd do anything to improve the team. If we can clear some space, unload Deng etc... do it Rob!
What's wrong with PG a bonafide super star being target #1 and already doable with creatively retaining BroLo who would be awesome for the next 3 years or so with the way he plays the game and retaining the best and most impactful of our young guys, meaning Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma AND Randle? Give up a 1st rounder, couple of 2nds and combo from Clarkson, Zubac, Hart and Bryant?
This has been my stance all along, but I've been heckled for it. I like Julius a lot as a player and person. When we drafted him, I identified with him quite a bit and saw a lot of myself in the kid. However, if he can help us move Deng's contract I'm making that move and I'm not looking back. If you could turn Randle/Deng into an expiring contract and/or a pick why wouldn't you make that move? We've got the horses to play the backup PF spot for now and while it would hurt in the short-term, it'd be better for both parties in the long-term.
Julius was by far our worst defender last year. They seemingly gave him another shot. I have a sneaking suspicion this FO has no sense of honor, best believe they'll unload Julius the second he gets enough value to help clear cap space for their beloved vision of easy wins.
If we could, we would. Who's taking that package? That's also like 31 million in salary. That's tough to move.
With Kuzma playing as well as he has, Randle is clearly expandable, even though it would hurt the Lakers. It would hurt the Lakers even more if they have to pay him 20 per season. Get something in return while you still can...once he hits the market, he is gone for zilch.
Yeah. I completely agree with you on this. I think it’s just a matter of time especially if we can find someone willing to give up a decent shooter.
The issue I have with the "trade Randle at the deadline" argument is that it fails to provide a scenario where we strike out on the 2018 FA's. Everyone in their right mind would trade Randle or Clarkson if Lebron/George is guaranteed to come, but they aren't. My concern is going all in on the 2018 plan without any consideration for risk management and damage control. It has nothing to do with being too attached to certain players. It's dangerous to make moves based on an assumption that a superteam is a foregone conclusion.
We would still have plenty of young players to develop and room to add players in FA that fit better. If Randle is our energy big man, he's going to make way too much money as an RFA and then we lose use him for nothing anyway. So unless we're planning on paying our energy big off the bench 15-20 million at least, there's becoming no argument to keep him past the deadline.
Paying Randle a 100 million isn't intelligent risk management. I see what you are saying and I don't see us succeeding with plan A (signing 2 max players) by any stretch of imagination but at the end of the day, you have to a) absolutely believe in a player --> shut up and pay him b) get rid of him while you can --> preferably get something in return. If the Lakers believe Randle is going to "outvalue" his contract, they would keep him around as a security blanket and pay him. But if they don't, then there is no reason to keep him around. It will also deteriorate his value if we keep him on the bench. Clearly, with the benching the Lakers don't consider him a core staple of their rebuilding effort. This is beyond obvious. This also means there is no way they should pay him whatsoever.
i dont believe randle is getting offers like that....Noel who has had top 5 advance defensive metrics for multiple yrs didnt get that kind of offer
I'd rather hold on to Randle right now than put him in a trade with Deng if at all possible. Honestly, I'm not sure who would be jumping on a trade of Deng and Randle anyway? Not sure Randle has that kind of value to anyone else. I think more likely we will be trying to move a cheap young contract like Zu with Deng and a future pick rather than a guy who is going to be looking for his next bigger level contract and still hasn't cemented a starting level status in Randle. I believe Randle is more valuable to us as a backup plan to the top level FA signing plan this summer than he is as trade bait for Deng. I just don't see the appeal for another team.
And yet Allen Crabbe got 4/74 million, Noah got 4/72 million, Evan Turner got 4/70 million, Steven Adams got 4/100 million, Oladipo got 4/84 million, Tristan Thompson got 5/84 million. More to the point: Otto Porter Jr. got 4/104 million, Hardaway Jr. got 4/71 million, Danilo Gallinari got 3/65 million, James Johnson got 4/60 million, Serge Ibaka 3/65 million. Using Noel isn't a good metric as the market didn't know how to approach him. His numbers aren't great, he's had some injury issues, and he was regarded well out of Philadelphia. I'm not saying Randle will absolutely command those numbers, but if you're the Lakers you have to prepare like he will. If someone like Otto Porter Jr. can get 100 million dollars, Julius can likely get a massive sum as well. I have to prepare like he will. I'd rather trade him than pay him. If he can be had for 4/50 million that's a solid deal, but we already have that exact contract in Clarkson so one of them has to go in order to preserve space for next summer (agree with the move or not, that's what the FO is doing so you have to account for it).
that spending spree was and is over, teams went crazy that yr and the cap did not spike to 120mill+ like most expected. Porter max wasnt warranted and wiz had no choice, nets had $ to burn and no one to burn it on. alot analyst have said that craxy spending isnt happening anymore. Using Noel is a better comparison that you using Porter, noel n randle play similar position n randle stats arent impressive either at the moment, porter was establishing himself as a solid 2 way wing, those position are way more valuable than 1 dimenional bigs like randle/noel
Porter's contract was last summer's. Hardaway's was last summer's. Johnson and Ibaka were last summer. And like I said: if you want to predict a future market that's low on Randle, you're a bad investor. The market has been set, not by Noel who is clearly an outlier, and Randle's market must be assumed larger than a qualifying offer. Otto Porter Jr. had zero reason to get 100+ million. In this climate he would likely have gotten 50-60 million on the open market, but as an RFA he was given a ridiculous sum of money. The amount of money they're paying to Porter is soon going to be a big problem for them as they fail to get over the hump and have the majority of their cap tied up in players that can't get them a title. For those paying attention: there's a lot of young players who are becoming FAs early because RFA has proved so dangerous and costly on young assets who don't necessarily deserve it. Players like Hezonja, Vaughn, and Okafor are becoming hazardous and it's easier to cut them lose as sunk costs than it is to try to fight the mine field of RFA.
if mgmt didnt have 18 plan im willing to bet my house they wouldve resigned randle to a similar deal as Tj Warren just got, everybody thougjt garry harris was gona get max, his contract is fair considering his out put so far, of the example you provided, id day only hardaway contract was unexpected
i think randle's gone, and i think he knows it. this is the kind of conversation you have during the extension talks. i'm guessing his agent threw out a crazy number, and the lakers said that's not happening now or later. thus, all parties have agreed to a trade, preferably by february so that randle has a chance to up his value in his new location. is this what i want? not necessarily. i agree with tada that it's a log of eggs in a basket i'm pretty sure has a hole in it (2018 FA). but i think it's where we are. if that's the case, the best return we can hope for is getting out from under deng in the process--or at least having returning salary be comparable to stretch-waiving deng.
Who is paying Randle 20 million this offseason or anything close to that? To sign a RFA you have to have cap space..... 2018 teams over the cap or have no cap Wizards Raptors Portland OKC - Unless PG leaves to come here then so what........90 million guaranteed regardless so unlikely Pelicans Timberwolves Milwaukee Miami Memphis Rockets Golden State Detroit Cleveland Charlotte Boston Knicks 15 teams can't sign him as RFA 2018 team with their projected max cap space unlikely to sign Randle......7 teams have space but unlikely to sign due to current team contracts Utah - 26 million.........Rodney Hood RFA, Derrick Favors UFA, 1st round pick......Would have to waive a couple players and decline to pay Paul Neto.......Unlikely to sign Spurs - 18 million........Parker UFA, Kyle Anderson RFA, 1st round pick...........Would need Danny Green and Rudy Gay to waive PO to get there (18 mil)......Unlikely to sign Orlando - 14 million........Gordon and Payton RFA.......Unlikely to sign Clips - 34 million........DJ UFA, Teodosic and Wesley Johnson PO (13 million), 1st round pick........Unlikely to sign Indiana - 36 million......Young and Joseph PO (22 million), 30 million non-guaranteed deals for Collison, Bogdanovic, Jefferson, 1st round pick........Unlikely to sign Denver - 23 million.......Gary Harris RFA........Unlikely Brooklyn - 28 million........DAR TO, Lin PO, Levert PO..........Unlikely 2018 teams with projected max cap space that can sign Randle Kings - 29 million........Would need Koufus and Temple to waive PO to get there (17 million)........Can see - Koufus and Temple unlikely to give up 9 million and 8 million PO - Have Skal, Giles and WCS already - Most likely scenario has them being able to offer 12 million for Randle Suns - 30 million.........Lottery pick + 1st round pick from Miami + 1st Bucks........Would need to waive a few players to get there......Monroe/Len UFA......Can see - ~ 10 million in draft picks coming in - Would need to renounce Len and Monroe - Would need to waive non-guaranteed deals of Williams (5.5), Jones, Ullis Reed (4.5 million) - Would be able to offer Randle 18-20 million if they cleared their books for him, which is very unlikely - Most likely would get 10-12 million range, but again, Monroe/Len Philly - 37 million........Covington UFA, 2 1st round picks.......Can see - 7-8 million in 1st round picks - Covington FA - Can sign Randle if they wanted to Dallas - 50 million........Wesley Matthews 19 million PO, Noel UFA, Yogi Ferrell RFA, Seth Curry UFA, 1st round pick......Can see - Matthews isn't giving up 19 million so really working with 31 million - Still could decide to pay Randle over Noel so likely Chicago - 48 million......1st round pick, LaVine RFA, Valentine, Portis, Grant, Dunn, Mirotic TO......Can see - Lavine RFA 10 million dollar hold - 38 million after - 1st round pick lottery - ~30 million - Can sign Randle Atlanta - 35 million.........Dedmon, Muscala PO (11 million), 3 1st round picks, Prince + Bembry TO (4 million).....Can see - Dedmon and Muscala not turning down that money - 24 million - Prince and Bembry unlikely to be renounced - 20 million - 3 1st round picks - 10 million - Delaney RFA - Can sign but for < 10 million So when it comes down to crazy contracts only Philly, Dallas, Chicago can get crazy with large contracts. And only two teams, Dallas and Chicago, makes sense. I don't see any utility in trading Randle unless A.) It's with Deng and B.) It's to get a star. Both options assume we have stars lined up so losing Randle isn't that big of a blow. But just trading him in fear he's going to get 20 million dollar deals in free agency would be shortsighted because there's really only two other teams that can make even me say no thanks to matching. 10-11 million dollar seems fair for Randle and is a solid backup plan in case we strike out on the superstar free agents. Worst case scenario is losing out on stars and trading Randle for cap space.
