Lonzo Ball Discussion: Bulls

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by OmarE, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,269
    Likes Received:
    18,611
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    I'd need to watch his highlights again, but as I remember it, it was a lot more than once.
     
  2. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I'm specifically remembering him short arming one in the first game. He was blocked once last night at the rim. He did have a nice looking layup away from the defender with his left hand and then the concession dunk late.
     
  3. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    10,892
    Likes Received:
    30,244
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    We discussed him passing up shots in the game day thread a bit. There were several times he passed on lay ups. He needs to take those. He’s going to have to develop those aspects of his game.
     
    abeer3 likes this.
  4. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    6,023
    Likes Received:
    13,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Marshall was a good passer. He never was a floor general.

    Last night there was an instance where he totally didn't know what to do and got a shot clock violation. Other time he dribbled and got himself trapped.

    Lonzo, so far, has done neither and appears to be much more of a leader/general than Marshall, 6 years his senior, is or ever was. Come on, T.
     
  5. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,124
    Likes Received:
    18,496
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    I don't know what "floor generals" are. Is it quantifiable? Marshall handed out 7.3 assists (vs. 2.9 TO) per 36 minutes as a rookie. Then he stepped it up to 11.0 vs. 3.5 as a sophomore. Those are elite numbers. Come on, Z :)
     
    abeer3 and Barnstable like this.
  6. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,269
    Likes Received:
    18,611
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    I just rewatched the highlights, and the short arming his shots was the thing. He doesn't extend on most of his layups. It's a really weird thing to see in the NBA these days because you have to extend in order to make the shot past defenders.
     
    therealdeal likes this.
  7. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    6,023
    Likes Received:
    13,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Not everything in basketball is quantifiable. If that kind of numeric impact was enough, he would not be playing for his life in Summer League for his 4th (?) team...
    Floor general is subjective, but to me:

    1. one that doesn't assist-hog and makes a non-lateral play
    2. one that knows when to pass and when to shoot and when to continue to feed the hot hand
    3. one that directs offense even when he doesn't have the ball

    That's my opinion. You'll be hard-pressed to find someone else, IMO, that would support you on this Marshall thing.
     
    The Showtime Mamba and trodgers like this.
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    It is strange. I think he'll improve as he continues to adjust. I wish he'd just taken a couple of those layups he had. I appreciate a guy moving the ball but he needs to take those shots. Especially since on one of them he passed out to Blue who wouldn't know a pass if it smacked him in the face.
     
    alam1108, abeer3 and Barnstable like this.
  9. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,124
    Likes Received:
    18,496
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    Marshall as his floor is a reach?
     
  10. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I said Marshall would be a floor watching him in college, but I am comfortable saying he's much better than Marshall already. The comparison came from an ability to move the ball well and knock down an awkward long ball. However, Lonzo is already better at getting into the paint, playing defense, and has a more natural feel as a lead guard. Like you said Marshall didn't even keep track of the clock in summer league. At this stage for him, even at 25, that's unacceptable. Lonzo turning the corner is a concern, but Marshall can't even get to the corner right now let alone turn it into the lane.
     
    OmarE likes this.
  11. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,269
    Likes Received:
    18,611
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    I actually agree with the Marshal comparison as his floor. I do think Ball will be much much better than Marshal, however, I seem to like Marshal's game more than most here.

    Wish we never got rid of him.
     
    trodgers, LaVarBallsDad and abeer3 like this.
  12. KRL

    KRL - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,369
    Likes Received:
    1,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I would say Lonzo has deceptive speed. He's not John Wall but Lonzo has great handles and shiftyness that will get him to the basket
     
  13. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    6,023
    Likes Received:
    13,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Yes.
     
  14. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,220
    Likes Received:
    10,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Offline
    And that's fine too. But being more aggressive offensively would open up his passing game so much more.
     
    Barnstable likes this.
  15. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Damn, Marshall as his floor? I don't remember much of his time w/us. Lonzo looked great offensively yesterday; he's going to have this offense running super-efficient. He just needs the parts around him, and I think he'll be fine.

    I've heard from many (even his detractors) say his passing his transcendent. That will translate easily. I could see that. And sure he could work on his weaknesses - midrange, handles, space creation techniques, but he's never going to be a John Wall "type" of point guard. That's never going to be his game, and that's fine because that isn't we we're looking for with him.

    He's had 1 good SL game - however, the pgs, and wings in the league are bigger, faster, longer, more athletic, and that's where he's probably going to struggle at various times this season. He's never going to be an "elite" shot-maker, he's never going to be a great "isolation" player - he'll be super efficient, but that's because he picks his spots wisely.

    He'll probably have 2 more games. Let's see if he can correct that jumper before SL is over...
     
    tada likes this.
  16. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,019
    Likes Received:
    75,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    he's gotten near the hoop several times, it's what happens when he gets there that's troubling. and i think this was true in college, too. late career jason kidd had the same issue: he didn't trust that he could finish over a defender, and eventually everyone just started playing him to pass and you'd see the same things we've seen in sl from ball: hang in air searching for an outlet, looking backwards while there's no one at the rim 3 ft from you.

    i think that's psychological more than physical for ball, though.
     
    KRL and LaVarBallsDad like this.
  17. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    It's Summer League, though. I think turning that corner in the NBA is going to be a little more difficult. Not saying he can't, because he just might, but he will struggle this season at various times turning that corner...
     
  18. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Turning the corner? Pass it to Ingram. Or George in 2018. Problem solved.
     
    LaVarBallsDad likes this.
  19. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    That I can agree with...LOL. I hope we see that.
     
    Barnstable and tada like this.
  20. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,124
    Likes Received:
    18,496
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    I guess I have a different view of floor. I use the definition as "a lower limit," like number six on Merriam-Webster. And it's possible that Ball is a decent but unorthodox three point shooter, high assist rate, high ast/to ratio, poor defender. And it's possible he will not make his teammates noticeably better. That's a floor.
     
    Barnstable likes this.

Share This Page