If we are truly waiting until 2018, better start making some legit progress or else we could scare him away.
I don't want to derail it either. I just want to maintain my defense of George. I 100% agree that the Pacers' success in 2013-2014 was primarily due to elite defense and team chemistry. They weren't a strong scoring team, ranking 24th on offense. That said, I don't put that on George. If it wasn't for him, that offense would be even more pathetic. He had a PG in Hill that averaged 3.5apg for the season. He had a PF and C in West and Hibbert that shot 48.8% and 43.9% - with Hibbert being a complete wreck in the 2nd half (8.9ppg on 39fg%). Both Hill and Stephenson slowed down offensively in the 2nd half. Another thing is the team traded Granger for Turner and that totally shook the team chemistry. It's not fair to blame George for the offensive struggles or the late struggles of this team. Lead players can only control so much. Success is dependent on who you have around you more than anything. Just look at all the Kobe years where his supporting cast was less than stellar.
Given pace differences, check the per 100 possession stats. George shoots 24.2 times, scores 31.0 points, hands out 4.6 assists, and grabs 8.6 rebounds. He also racks up 2.2 steals. Russell shoots 33.8 times, scores 44.0 points, hands out 14.3 assists, grabs 14.8 rebounds, and racks up 2.3 steals. Russ is a monster, but I don't see his teammates developing around him.
Look I get it, we've had the worst run in our history and we've been the laughing stock of FA for the last 3/4 years. Players wouldn't take meetings with us, others called us out of date and laughed at our pitches, others said we had no pieces and no direction. Now we have an all star who is interested in us and naturally it's exciting. I'm just advising to make the right move. Sign him during free agency and don't trade for him. If you think about it, George almost got traded before the deadline. Obviously, we would of been on the phone trying to counter the C Bags offer. If you think about it and from what's come out in the media. We were offering Lou as if he were a first and we weren't interest in attaching Ingram. We probably made an offer to the Pacers for Russ, Randle and Houston 1st and they probably asked us to throw in Ingram (possibly take randle out) and argued all 3 young players aren't having a great season. Tough to give up two top 3 picks, another top 10 and Hou 1st round this year. In the summer they probably ask for Russell, Ingram and our Top 3 if we keep it. They'll also probably argue Russell and Ingram are busts. Still I don't wanna give up our last 3 top 3 picks. Sign him in FA!!
If it get to this, I love our odds (taking my love of the Lakers out of the equation). I just dont think it gets to that unfortunately. I believe PG either gets traded this summer or by next year's deadline.
Remind me to go look for youtube clips before I go and make any blanket statements with you guys around lol
I'd rather trade for him giving up smaller pieces. George is an expiring starting this summer and if he's demanding a trade to us, the Pacers have very little bargaining power with us. We'll be put in a similar situation as Carmelo was in Denver except Carmelo desperately got his trade pushed through and killed New York. In this case, we give up something small, but effective like Clarkson/Randle or Clarkson/Nance Jr. Or you risk Indiana trading George to a contender where he falls quickly in love *achem* BOSTON! It'd be hard for George to walk away from a great opportunity like that just to come home. So he comes home for less money AND less wins? I sort of doubt it. Maybe we could trade for another piece first. Maybe we could sign Griffin or some other secondary star in the summer and that convinces George to say he wants LA or bust. It's a fluid situation, but I'd honestly prefer having him in hand than risking losing him given that the cost is reasonable (meaning he demanded a trade right to us).
The right move is to trade for George this summer if the price is right. If the Pacers are asking for Russell, Ingram and the Top 3 pick if the Lakers keep it, no way on earth are the Lakers giving up that much. The Lakers have leverage this summer with George's comments. Not enough to get George for some peanuts offer because Indy still has pride to deal with and can probably get a good offer from a team willing to take George as a rental with the hopes they may be able to get him to re-sign. But enough leverage to not have to part with their last Top 3 picks. Lakers should be able to get George parting with just 1. Be it some deal built around Russell/Clarkson, Ingram/Clarkson or Randle/Clarkson/Top 3 pick. Keeping all your assets and just signing George in 2018 sounds great but that's far from a guarantee. Things can change between now and then. If you can get George this summer for a fair price - and have him for his age 27 year - and still maintain top end assets to either build around him or use for another star, that's the smart play.
I think trading Clarkson/Randle or Clarkson/Nance for George is a pipe dream. If that was the case, we would of got it done before the deadline by throwing in the Houston 1st. Bird is asking Boston for numerous pieces and one or both of the Brooklyn picks. I still think that trade is there in the summer, so we're going to have to beat it. Like you said, more money and being a top seed in the East? With a potential for Boston to land Jimmy Butler too? No way he leaves that situation, so I don't see the C Bags being scared to trade for him. Or a number of other teams either. How much would you be willing to give up to land George?
Like you and EddieEddie have mentioned, I don't wanna derail the thread too much. I won't go down that road arguing against or for Harden, it's a system vs player argument that will probably be impossible to conclude. I will concede that Kawhi took his game to a higher level this year- but my stance is on PG is that he has all the tools to make the same jump. I'm not sold on Vogel being a truly good coach; and obviously I'm all in on Luke's potential, especially on the offensive side. As for Westbrook, I think he's better than George just to be clear. I think this OKC team is a better situation than the Pacers current situation actually. Aside from a 3-pt shooter (although they just acquired McDermott), the roster was built around Russ (and KD of course). There is probably more talent on the current Pacers roster, but none of those players quite fit together, really a hodge podge of overlapping skills. Some are on the tail end of their careers too. And much like AD, I haven't seen enough from KAT to conclude he's gonna surpass PG just yet. Agree to disagree. As for trading him vs signing him, we have to wait another 3-4 months before we can figure that one out. If we net the 3rd overall pick, I say we go hard at Indy and get PG here before the draft even takes place.
Paul George will turn 28 the summer of 2018. The prime of prime age for NBA players. Same age Shaq and MJ won their first titles. Paul wants to come to LA. Its more obvious than the rumor of Westbrook wanting to come. My prediction is if the Lakers win the lottery, George will be a Laker this summer. If they dont get the top 3 pick, they will have to risk waiting a year later. Clarkson, Randle, Top 3 pick, Houston's first and whatever fillers needed for George.
Just to comment on this, George's price tag this summer will be lower than it was at the deadline. So can't fairly compare. The Pacers are 29-28 and 6th in the East, so obviously they want George for the postseason run this year - especially since winning is what will improve their odds of keeping him long-term. This summer, George will be entering a contract year as he can opt out in 2018, so there is immense pressure to trade him and not lose him for nothing if they flop in the postseason. At the same time, any team trading for him would give up more at the deadline and get 1 year and change out of him before he hits free agent versus just 1 year. Especially a team like Boston poised to make the postseason. And Bird asked Boston for numerous pieces and Boston said no. So the trade wasn't there at the deadline and will be even less there in the summer since they didn't get him for the 2017 postseason and then with George one year away from free agency and chirping about only signing a long term deal with Indy or the Lakers.
I can appreciate that thinking Eddie. I also think Ingram, Clarkson, Russell and Randle's trade value drops after their poor season. So I still think we have to give up more than we are comfortable with. Realistically, if you look at our assets as trade ammunition: 3 Great Assets: Russell, Ingram, Top 3 2 Good Assets: Randle, Houston 1st 4 Decent Assets: Clarkson, Nance, Zubac, 2nd Rounder How much do you guys give up for George? How much for Butler? How much for Westbrook? How much for Wall? Anyone prefer just to stick with the youth movement?
Mouthpiece (aka Ding) does. That tells me two things: 1) George doesn't want us gutting the team because he and his agent are leaking it out there that he wants to come to LA to preserve LA's assets and 2) that he (and the Lakers) believe the young kids could still be the difference makers. I still don't want to wait though. As long as the asking price isn't crazy (and I don't believe it will provided George keeps low-key demanding a trade), I would rather get him now. If George makes it clear it's LA or bust, then we can get him with pennies on the dollar. Either George walks to us in the summer or Indy takes a decent albeit lowball offer like Clarkson/Top 3/Deng for George/Ellis or something along those lines. It's a respectable offer, but it leaves us with Russell/Randle/Ingram/Zubac/Larry Nance Jr. and now George along with some cap space. Or we make ourselves great somehow in some other way in 18 months and convince George to sign here over the summer... Which is a massive risk.
My goal is to post on pages 25, 50, 100, 250 and 500. Was it the Artest thread that someone kept changing the thread title?
