Sources: Strife Builds Within Knicks

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Dec 10, 2014.

  1. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    The New York Knicks were en route to their fifth straight loss last week against Brooklyn when a frustrated Tim Hardaway Jr. screamed angrily, "Get the rebound!''

    Certain his second-year teammate was speaking to him, Carmelo Anthony approached Hardaway on the way down the court and used an expletive to ask Hardaway who in the world he thought he was talking to.

    Anthony, according to sources, then used another expletive in telling Hardaway he was going to beat him up when they got into the locker room after the game.

    While the two players never wound up fighting, the episode was emblematic of the volatile state of the Knicks. Off to their worst start in franchise history at 4-19, the Knicks are a team full of discord, defiance and doubt, according to sources with knowledge of the situation.

    "Nobody's taken a swing at anybody, but there's a lot of arguing and cursing each other out after games,'' one source said.

    In addition to the Knicks' lack of chemistry, sources say the players believe coach Derek Fisher's insistence on running the triangle offense is another key reason for New York's struggles.

    Anthony could not be reached for comment Wednesday. The Knicks play at San Antonio on Wednesday night, and Anthony said after Tuesday's 104-93 loss at New Orleans -- New York's ninth straight defeat -- that he is considering giving his ailing right knee a rest.

    Several Knicks, in addition to Hardaway, are at odds with Anthony and believe he's not playing team basketball. Sources said players voiced their displeasure with Anthony this past weekend, telling him he shoots too much, doesn't move or pass the ball, and only plays defense when he feels like it.

    Sources said the most tension exists between Anthony and Hardaway as they haven't cared for one another almost since Hardaway joined the team last season, with each player believing the other shoots too much and doesn't care about defense. Sources said Hardaway was also bothered by the favorable treatment Anthony received under last year's coach, Mike Woodson.

    Sources said one thing Anthony and his teammates do agree on is their disdain for the triangle offense. For weeks, if not longer, the players have been ready to ditch the triangle and move on to another system. They feel like other teams know what they're going to run and where they're going to go on the court, which makes it easier to stop them.

    When team president Phil Jackson gave his "stat of the team" address Monday, he said the Knicks players have shown defiance to the changes he and Fisher have made in the name of "changing the culture.''

    "There's some resistance to discipline and order and culture change and things like that,'' Jackson said.

    The players' dislike for the triangle is a part of that. But there is more.

    Last year, under Woodson, the Knicks switched on defense. This year, under Fisher, they don't switch, which has some players grumbling.

    Also, the day after losses, Woodson would typically hold voluntarily workouts that were light and non-demanding. Fisher, however, holds full-fledged practices and works the players hard.

    "Guys are definitely frustrated,'' one source said. "But some of it's just basketball stuff that the players don't like doing. When somebody's demanding that you make a hard cut, you don't like it because you have to work harder. When someone says it's not okay to throw a bull---- pass, guys don't like it.''

    But the players don't feel like Fisher is being too hard on them, sources said. In fact, some feel his sideline demeanor is too stoic and they'd like to see more emotion out of him.

    "They almost want to see Fisher get upset during a game,'' one source said. "They want to know that their coach will go to battle with them, that he'll fight for them. They're not seeing any emotion out of him.''

    With free agents who signed before Sept. 16 becoming available for trade on Dec. 15, the Knicks could look to make roster changes soon -- with sources saying J. R. Smith is the player they'd most like to trade.

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/sto...armelo-anthony-heart-team-discord-sources-say
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2014
  2. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    ^^ And this is a surprise to . . . no one at all. The Knicks personnel is the complete opposite of what you'd want in order to run the triangle. This was always a square peg in a round hole.
     
  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Yup. I never saw it working there and I especially don't now. The only player on that team well equipped to run the Triangle is Carmelo and he doesn't pass the ball nearly enough to be effective in the Triangle. Well maybe he and Calderon, but Calderon is always hurt.

    Hardaway Jr? JR Smith? Amar'e? Hell no. Bad fit, bad team, bad franchise. Even Phil won't be able to turn this around.

    How the hell are they going to attract Rondo? or Marc Gasol? Our team might stink, but at least our locker-room is fine.
     
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  4. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    I take this to show that as bad as we are, we don't have teammates cussing eachother out and wanting to fight. So we got that going for us. As for the triangle, it doesn't seem that complicated to me, these guys seem lazy. Rodman commented on this, saying how it's not that hard. And if Rodman can learn it, a guy who was smart about the game yes, but never an offensive guy, these guys should be able to learn it. I've read that Melo shoots too much and guys don't like that, well, Kobe shoots a lot and the triangle still worked here. Really they're just a mess, Phil will have to bring in his own roster if he wants guys that will commit to this offense and to Fisher.
     
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  5. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    But how is he going to do that? Who wants to join a train wreck? You've got to stop the bleeding first and if anything they're bleeding more profusely than ever. I know if I were Rondo or Gasol I'd stay the hell away from that mess.
     
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  6. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Well it's not a quick fix for sure. The core of that team needs changing though. I'd get rid of JR Smith if I could, he can play but he's too much about getting his. Moving on from Amare finally will help as well.
     
  7. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Well what they need is a locker-room presence that can off-set Anthony. Clearly Anthony doesn't have the "leadership" gene. He's either incapable of or unwilling to move the ball to his teammates just enough to make them happy. I mean for all of the "Kobe doesn't pass" talk, the man has over 6000 assists. In 12 years as a professional, Carmelo doesn't have HALF that.

    They need to get rid of JR Smith, Amar'e, Bargnani, Hardaway Jr. (because he can't get along with Carmelo), that crazy old PG they've got... I mean on our end at least we just have to FIND someone. They've got to get RID of guys first, THEN find someone willing to put up with Carmelo Anthony.

    This rebuild hasn't even started yet for them.
     
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  8. thkthebest

    thkthebest Administrator Staff Member

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    Agreed. Our group of guys are still a unit, even when they lose. Kobe said he's still trying to teach them. It's a process. The Knicks players just seem to care about themselves. "This is what I did to get here. This is what I'm going to continue to do." As Phil Jackson said, they're resistant to change. On the other hand, our players at least seem to be trying to figure out how to be better as a team. "What can I do to help the team? How can I change? What is my role?" That's the impression I get anyway.

    I found this part funny:

    "They want to know that their coach will go to battle with them, that he'll fight for them. They're not seeing any emotion out of him.''

    He might not be a great coach, but Fisher will always have your back. So weird to see them question that.

    Also, Rodman says the triangle is not hard and that the players aren't running the triangle, which was obvious. He also said that everyone knew who was the boss was (Jordan, Kobe, and Shaq). The players fit around them, but the Knicks players don't seem to want to fit "around" someone else. At least, they don't see Melo as the boss.

    Literally complaining about practicing and working harder.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  9. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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  10. acetabulum7

    acetabulum7 - Rookie -

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    Not a triangle peg?
     
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  11. pound4pound

    pound4pound - Lakers Starter -

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    LOL @ the whole article...the Knicks need an overhaul worse than we do...and we suck a**
     
  12. acetabulum7

    acetabulum7 - Rookie -

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    And this is why I've always said NO to Melo from the very start.

    Can you imagine 5 full years of this and his maxed deal... with a no trade clause to boot?!

    :whew:
     
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  13. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

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    That team is not built to run the triangle and are more than a couple changes away from being able to. I honestly don't think the triangle is a hard system to learn, the hard part is learning your teammates and playing as a unit so the triangle can be effective.

    Seeing the Knicks mess makes our mess a little easier to handle. Our locker room is fine, Nick young is a big part of that.
     
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  14. Juronimo

    Juronimo - Lakers Starter -

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    I am also glad we don't have Melo for 24 million a year or whatever.
     
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  15. Perdurabo

    Perdurabo - Rookie -

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    Phil brought in triangle guys like Harper to initiate the offense.

    He should have brought in Fish to initiate the offense on the floor, and Pippen to coach.
    A few more tri guys to bring in the culture. Artest could have been kept. The machine for cheap. Jettison as many guys as possible who have the losing mentality.
     
  16. acetabulum7

    acetabulum7 - Rookie -

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    Next off-season they'll have the cap space to do that. Phil & Co. are just gonna have to wait it out. But hey, a high draft pick is pretty cool. :angel:
     
  17. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    But Phil will draft Luke, no? Poor Knicks - they will now know what it is to draft for triangle.
     
  18. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    yeah, when i read things like this, i think "did these dudes never get coached in high school?" it's amazing to me how many nba players clearly don't work on their game and are unable/unwilling to learn the nuances of the game. not even with millions of dollars at stake can you be bothered to fight through a screen or set a proper one yourself? really? no wonder kobe's still eating these guys for breakfast at 36.
     
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