Im taking KAT over WB for our team, pretty sure if OKC offered WB for KAT straight up Minny slams the phone down.
We'll see how things go but I'm already having sugar plum dreams of Russell recruiting Towns in 7 years.
I don't know how the conversation moved to KAT, but I see him as this era's Tim Duncan. On some players you just know from day 1 that they are going to be legends.
In basketball terminology, I consider a transcendent player to be a superstar that can withstand ANY era, who's star shines amongst the brightest. In the past decade there were maybe five players that qualify. Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Curry. It has little to do with stats and more to do with perception. I would even put Iverson above Westbrook in that regard. Towns has the potential to change the way the game is played. The league has never seen a big that can run, handle, defend, and shoot the way Towns can. He's still 20 and I think he will be a superstar within 2 years. Westbrook is a mini-Lebron with much worse efficiency. He turns 28 in 4 months. Not a transcendent talent imo, unless you consider him an equal to prime Kobe.
Westbrook has that Mamba Mentality. I'd take him in a heartbeat, but I'm not giving up D'Angelo or Ingram for him. Sign him as a free agent or let him play somewhere else.
Garnett, Kidd, Nash, (as much as I hate to say it) Pierce and Allen, Wade, Bosh, Parker, Nowitzki, and Gasol are all champions that would have thrived in any era with the exception of Nash who never won a ring. Iverson, Howard, Durant, Westbrook, Gary Payton, Vince Carter, Chris Paul, Chris Webber, Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, and Tracy McGrady are all pretty notable names that either won a championship or have done something statistically to stand out or won an Olympics. All of these people are possible (some already) Hall of Fame candidates. I just want further clarification for the sake of this discussion what is a transcendent player and what isn't? Is it rings? Is it talent? Is it stats? Westbrook has two of those three things. Is it his ability to change the NBA? Iverson did that. Is it redefining the position? Bosh and Nowitzki helped remodel the new big man. Howard has 3 DPOY awards, Nash 2 MVPs... What makes a person transcendent?
Great question. I don't think there's a clear criteria, but I think it's a combination of the things you listed. Charisma, character, leadership, talent, skill, impact/influence, titles, stats, health, longevity, and luck. Luck plays a huge role because if Duncan fell to another team and was never coached by Pop, or if Curry never played in Kerr's system, they probably wouldn't crack the Top 20 list. Westbrook currently has the talent/stats but lacks in the other areas. I'd also like to point out that while I see the Mamba mentality in Westbrook, his basketball IQ can not touch Kobe.
Okay I understand where you're at now on what makes someone transcendent, but if that's all the case then how can we know that Towns IS and Westbrook is NOT? Westbrook has charisma, talent, skill, impact/influence, stats, and thus far 8 years of longevity. I'd consider him a leader and while he's been hurt, he's come back effectively. The only thing he clearly doesn't have on your list is titles. His character towards the media has been spotty, but he's always been considered a great teammate and friend, he's good with the community, and he hasn't had any serious off-the-court issues. Meanwhile we've seen only one season of Towns. So far he's got talent, skill, character, stats, and the jury is still out on charisma although there's definitely some there. I've seen little evidence of leadership thus far, but it's way too early to tell. He's been healthy for one year, but there's no way to test longevity or luck yet. He hasn't had any kind of impact/influence yet. So what makes Towns transcendent, but Westbrook not?
I don't think Westbrook is transcendent at all. Towns, the jury is out. The only active transcendent player right now in the NBA is Lebron. Curry could get there if he gets some of whatever Allen Iverson and Isaih Thomas had before they played since his skill level is possibly unprecedented. Once he gets the mental part, you can add him to the list. Guys like KAT and Ludabrow, way to early in their careers to say one way or another. I think for someone to be transcendent, they have to dominate the league for years at a time. These are guys who can beat you buy themselves. These are guys that can shift the entire landscape of the NBA. These are guys that can manipulate a game at their whim, who are always several steps ahead of even their best competition. These are bigger than life people, gods of the game. Shaq was that. Kobe was that. MJ, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Kareem, Bill Russel, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Wilt, they were that. There's been maybe 10 players in history, maybe 15 who fit this description. This is the elite of the elite.
I believe I said Towns is a transcendent talent, meaning he has the potential to join the ranks of the GOAT's. At 20 years of age, time is on his side. I've seen enough of Westbrook to conclude that he's just another perennial all-star. He has hit his prime and peaked. He's not a transcendent player.
Interesting. By your personal definition, that makes sense. I disagree. I think the only thing missing from Westbrook being a transcendent talent is a ring. If he wins a title, I think he's right up there with all the greats of this generation. He certainly has the charisma, skill, talent, and stats down.
But as Juronimo pointed out, joining the greats of this generation does not make him transcendent. Winning a ring only puts him in the Wade category. That's still a level below Kobe and Lebron. He'll never get there.
Preach You get early LeBron and whole career Dwight Howard willies when you see it (not the dancing .... his approach to the game) Can you imagine in your wildest dreams Kobe dancing like a fooo on the sidelines?
Yeah I'm getting that vibe now. It seems like you've made up your mind @tada and there's nothing that can change it. I guess we'll have to walk away from this one.
No worries @therealdeal , he's still a great player. I just don't want anyone thinking he's the second coming of Kobe.
