President Trump

That's your line. Someone else would have a different standard. I don't think we should have statues and streets named after someone vastly opposed to gay marriage. It's just not right. But others would disagree.

 

I agree with Don Lemon's take on this. To go to a high school for example named after Robert E Lee as a person of color, to be a "Robert E Lee Rebel" at your school, to see statues of people around that fought to keep slavery going, I think we are beyond that. He says black people feel fear from symbols like the confederate flag and statues of these men, so who am I to disagree. I personally don't think we should have statues of the last men that really supported and fought for slavery around, or have their flag hung in public places. The only place they should be is in a museum to serve as a history lesson. Everyone's line is different, yes, but I think starting with the most obvious and I would think most universally agreed upon symbols of racism and hate is fine.

 

My point is, what is the standard and who gets to decide the standard? Your low bar is anyone who betrayed their country. Okay. Fair enough. What about a Catholic church that has a statue of a priest that molested kids? Or a school named after someone opposed to gay marriage? Or a bridge named after an adulterer? A library named after a murderer?

 

https://www.livescience.com/57173-isis-war-crime-charges-for-heritage-destruction.html

Worth a read. ISIS destroyed historic monuments they deemed offensive.

 

I'm not against this, but I know it won't erase our ugly past. Is that the goal?

 

And I'd have a problem with that too, so long as the church is tax exempt.

 

I agree with this. I could be wrong, but what I see happening is the Far Left going after anything and everything that offends them, because at this point, what doesn't offend them?

 

I don't really see these as comparable. ISIS did this for religious reasons, and they destroy precious ancient archeological sites and artifacts relating to our history as humanity in the name of religion. People wanting to take a Robert E Lee statue down isn't religious, it's trying to stop racist historical figures from being propped up as symbols of good, and now symbols for the current white supremacist movement. These are 2 completely separate situations and fights.

 

I hope you aren't misconstruing my comment as I don't care. I do care. But I'm almost 40. I have seen our leaders do whatever they can (and want) to stay in power. Left or Right, Republican or Democrat...and the "peasants" always say they have to hold them accountable (yet the way we ask that to happen is to ask the government to get control of the situation...which is exactly what they want). And we scream and scream...but the more time that goes by, the tighter their grip becomes; the more power corrupt individuals gain. It's not that I don't care. It's just that I know the outcome: We scream and they take more. Eventually there will be a revolution, a bloody one most likely. I'm just saying I hope it happens after I'm gone because it seems to be inevitable at this point.

 

That's exactly my point. They had a line in the sand. Their line. We can disagree, but who gets to decide? The majority, the loudest, the ones with the guns? The majority voted in these Gen Lee statues, but the minority (these far right idiots IMO) feel threatened and marginalized. So they come to protest and speak out and this is where we are. Chaos. A lady dead. 30+ injured. Did a statue really scare anyone that it had to come down? As I said, I don't care for or against statues (unless Laker related), but I don't know the standard and who gets to decide. I see some Far Left nutjobs that I don't want deciding anything, just like those on the Far Right.

 

Obsessive? yeah, everything. I have a HUGE problem with them in Berkeley shutting down Milo's event. Colleges are supposed to be the haven for Free Speech and sharing ideas. Not just those you agree with. And Berkeley of all places!!! I have a problem with the 85297 genders they keep shoving down our throats and then claim to be on the side of science. I see the Confederate Flag on the State Capital in S. Carolina as a bad thing and glad they had it removed, but then that's not enough and get the Dukes of Hazzard taken off the air. I saw a gay couple sue a bakery because they wouldn't bake them a wedding cake due religious beliefs and lose their business. On the flip side, I saw music performers and the NBA boycott N. Carolina over bathroom laws -- why weren't they forced to do business even though they chose not to like the bakers? And instead of discussing things, I see the Far Left shout down any disagreement and call them Nazi, Racist, Alt Right, bigot, homophobe.

 

That's why I say this thing really is more multi-sided than the easy narrative. There were people who just felt strongly that the statue should remain because they were proud of it. They were willing to do it non-violently and to stand for their beliefs in a respectful fashion. Those people shouldn't lose their voice simply because a deplorable minority group of terrorists hijacked their stance.

I disagree with their stance personally, but I still think those people deserve the chance to speak. The words coming from Trump are as always uncouth and ineloquent which is a massive problem. He has zero tact and I don't particularly like Trump, but I do believe that no matter what he says the social media crowd will crush him.

Also to John's point: one thing I found frightening was the treatment of John McCain. Politics aside, McCain is an American Hero. He suffered through some of the worst treatment imaginable in the war and when he came back he decided to try to affect change in a constructive way. Trump's treatment of him was wrong and the social media crowd crucified Trump for it. When it came out that McCain had cancer, the social media crowd (decidedly liberal, not democrat, but liberal) took him up as a hero. THEN of course came the vote on health care and they were all standing there with their pitchforks, torches, and shovels and were preemptively dragging him through the mud. They were saying things like "if he votes to abolish health care, he's not a hero at all" among much more hurtful and harmful things. What kind of mentality is that? Short answer: it's a brainwashed, mob talking. Horrifying. The healthcare situation is nuanced and difficult and his opinions and politics on that matter shouldn't discount the things he's done for our country previously. It's horrifying and disrespectful to the man, especially in his condition. Of course, McCain voted the way they all wanted, so they loved him again, but how quickly the public can turn on you. It's sort of scary to think about.

I got a little off topic there, but the point is that John has a point. We are all on the same side of one thing: white nationalism and racism and Nazism are all horrible, horrible things and have no business in our lives and in our country. I love that this site we can all have this conversation in shades of gray instead of the black and white you see all over the place.