Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LakerFanIam, May 20, 2018.
Lol so much Deng my stomach hurts..
If the Lakers pay Randle 18-20 million for the next 4 years or 5, they will regret it.
And it doesn't seem to have sunk in to Laker fans the money to value aspect. And Lakers fans continue to over value their players.
Regardless of what the market is, you can not have a none impact player like Randle holding down 1/5 of your cap. Stats and videos of you working out mean nothing. 20 million per should be reserved for all NBA and perennial all stars whom have had deep playoff runs and played in big games.
Lakers need to sign Paul George. Once that happens, wait for LeBron. If he doesn't want to sign, then look at Randle and see if he is still available at a reasonable price. If Dallas wants to pay him the max, let him go. Dallas can have another overpaid non impact player like Harrison Barnes and they get stew in mediocrity for the next 5 years.
Word just came out Kawhi may want to mend the relationship in San Antonio. That's likely since they can pay him the super max and he is in Texas so that means no state tax on top of that.
So the Lakers need to play this smart. Sign PG first. As soon as that happens, your off season is already a success. You then wait and see how things go from there. If PG is your only big signing, great. You adjust to what you now have and NOW, you have some more time to figure out the Luol Deng situation instead of stretching him and paying him beyond the 2 years left on his useless existence in the NBA.
Most important thing here is flexibility beyond this summer with the additions. Next years free agents will be interesting too. Lakers may have a shot at Klay or whomever and you want to be able to give that a shot if you can help it.
If LeBron signs, then its easier to make tough calls. At least you are now a title contender and if so, are willing to do more risky moves at that point.
i actually tend to agree with ox that randle probably isn't worth big money, but the truth is that the market dictates value. he's definitely not a deng case, so even if he's overpaid, you want to have him as opposed to cap space. thus, i think it's pretty important that the lakers find a way to keep him as long as the price tag stays under 20 per. and i don't think he's getting offers that high. hopefully, he's holding out for that, which would mean that he doesn't get an offer sheet right off the bat and the lakers can better manage the situation.
i think he'll be back at deng money.
So Dallas is reportedly his biggest suitor. Let's see what they do in the draft. If they go big like they should, I'd be surprised if they spent big money on Julius. It's possible Julius doesn't have anyone to play against the Lakers for 20 or more million. In that case, we're in great shape.
If Dallas goes "big" with a C - especially a defensive minded one like Bamba - that shouldn't prevent them from pursuing a PF in Randle. With DSJ at PG and Barnes at SF and one more year of Wes Matthews being crazy overpaid at SG, it'd leave PF as the most logical place to spend. Now if Dallas goes forward with Michael Porter Jr., then yeah, that'd impact their pursuit of Randle and would shift their focus to acquiring a C.
With Dennis Smith Jr. (31.3%) and Harrison Barnes (35.7%) along with Bamba (27.5% in college) and Randle (career 25.7%) who is shooting the ball? Wes Matthews is the only legitimate shooting threat and he's a 1-year deal. Randle and Bamba fit together poorly. Randle fits best perhaps with Jaren Jackson Jr. who is also a PF so they'd be a pretty damn small lineup as starters. As a "death lineup" they'd fit pretty well.
Not to mention, other names that Dallas brought up are DeAndre Jordan and DeMarcus Cousins who, as full FAs, will likely be easier to get to and should be their first calls. Picking someone like Jaren Jackson Jr. and then signing DeAndre is a better fit by far than drafting Bamba and signing Randle.
So no, drafting Bamba isn't prohibitive, but it would dramatically change the demands of the team.
Why would it surprise you if DAL spent big money on an offer to Randle if they went with a big at that #5 spot?
If they go with Mo Bamba at #5 then they have their Center of the future but they still are real thin at the 4 spot. Dirk knowing him isn't going to care about starting or coming off the bench if the team is at least better.
DAL then makes a strong offer to Randle so they have a front court tandem of Bamba and Randle for the future. Now I agree with your point above ^ that Randle doesn't fit great next to Bamba and needs more of a perimeter player next to him in order to be effective. I just hope that Dallas feels the same way that pairing Mo and Julius may not be the best option.
Like I said, if the Mavs draft a forward, then obviously they're not likely to pursue Randle. I mentioned Porter. You mentioned Jackson. So in that instance, yes, pursuing Jordan/Cousins makes more sense. I'm talking about the context of them drafting a C.
If they draft a true C in Bamba, they're not going to make big contract offers to other true Cs in Jordan/Cousins. That'd just be a waste of their resources. Just as drafting a PF and then signing Randle would be. Which goes to my point of them logically pursuing a PF like Randle in that instance. I disagree Randle and Bamba fit together poorly. Defensively, the duo will be solid on rebounding and Bamba will make up for Randle's lack of rim protection. Offensively, Randle will be the primary frontcourt scorer and Bamba will just be some guy who gets the easy buckets for the time being. He's only 20 and still developing on offense - but he does have a nice stroke and over time his range will expand. Yeah it'd be great if Randle had more range but I don't think this would be prohibitive in their pursuit of him at all. They need talent bad and are not going to overthink this.
As who would shoot the ball: Wes Matthews and Barnes. The latter was a much better 3pt shooter his last two seasons in Golden State and should realistically improve with a better cast around him. The former may only have one year left on his deal but he remains on the team, they can address a long-term SG next summer. They also have the #33 pick, which could yield a nice SG prospect. DSJ could also show improvement. He was erratic his rookie year but he shot 44.4% on threes in December and 37.3% on threes in March. So there is potential as he develops.
Like I said above you: the fit between Randle and Bamba is awful. Why spend big on Randle if he's not going to fit with the rest of the team including your two high profile picks the last two years? If I were them, I'd rather take on salary and picks or sign a Forward if one is available. Maybe a Wilson Chandler or a Rudy Gay or something and slide Harrison Barnes down to PF in small ball lineups again.
If there was a big that could shoot well from outside that Dallas took, I'd be more concerned. I don't see that big being available.
They're not drafting Porter at the 5th spot. The discussion here is whether or not signing Randle makes sense after using a draft pick on a big at #5. What big that is worth the 5th selection in this draft are the Mavs going to take that fits well next to Randle?
The Mavs are going to spend 20+ million on Randle to develop slowly alongside Bamba? That doesn't make much sense. If they're not likely to be good, why spend that type of money on Randle? It's not a good fit now, it won't be for years. If your plan is to develop Bamba into a shooter, that might not come to fruition until Julius becomes an UFA. Your scenario to fit Randle/Bamba makes less sense than Barnes/Bamba does. Hell, if you draft Bamba it makes more sense to go after Jabari Parker than Julius Randle.
Julius doesn't fit with them unless they have a shooting big man because Julius is a primary driver and paint player. He either cannot or will not develop a jumper in the foreseeable future. Bamba has shown a little promise as a shooter, but not enough to be a threat in the NBA right away. If Dirk were younger, Randle would be a better fit, but the hypothetical Randle/Bamba fit just isn't a good one, especially at the cost that Randle will be.
Yes, I understand what the discussion is. You don't believe Randle + Bamba makes sense. It's not perfect but I don't think the Mavs drafting Bamba at #5 will prohibit them from pursuing Randle. I'll agree to disagree. If the Mavs don't draft Bamba (or another C), this is a moot point.
Also, if the Mavs feel Porter can develop into a small-ball PF, I think the Mavs could draft Porter at #5 if they feel he is the BPA.
No one said prohibit, but the fit isn't what it should be. Why invest in Bamba if you're going to put someone next to him that doesn't fit as well as others could? Especially when the guy you sign in RFA is expensive?
It makes far more sense, if the Mavs don't go Center, to go with Jackson Jr., and then sign DeAndre Jordan or DeMarcus Cousins. You're going to spend a ton of money on a big, might as well get bigs that fit. Jackson/Jordan is a solid fit on both ends. The Mavs could surprise with a pick of Porter. In that case, signing DeAndre Jordan makes even more sense and Randle makes even less. Porter profiles as a PF or at best a SF/PF combo that is similar to someone they already have in Barnes.
The Mavs have no clue what will happen in free agency. There is no guarantee they can even get one of Randle, Jordan, Cousins. Or Jabari Parker. What they can control is who they pick at #5. If Bamba is atop their board, they should draft him. If it's Porter or Jackson Jr., then go that direction. Then alter your free agent plans accordingly. So the question isn't why invest in Bamba if you're going to pursue Randle, but why invest in Randle if you have Bamba - and the answer is because they think it could work. You clearly don't. I do. Who knows what they might think. All I know is they clearly want a rim protecting C and they are heavily linked to Randle and unless they are as adamant about it not fitting as you are, I don't see them not pursuing this tandem - if they draft Bamba.
As for Porter, he's more versatile than Barnes with a higher ceiling. Plus Barnes has said he doesn't want to play PF and he does in fact play better at SF, so he addresses a positional need. I don't see Barnes impacting their decision to draft Porter.
agreed, dont draft someone because you "might" sign someone
That's not even close to what I said. Good call.
I never said anything to the contrary on your first point. I don't know where you got that from. I never said they should pick Jackson Jr. just because they might get DeAndre Jordan. I've had Bamba to them for weeks, go check the mock drafts. You can assume what you want about Dallas's plans, but you don't know any more than I do what they're thinking. If they're thinking a Bamba/Randle duo is the right move, good for them. There's a lot of reasons why it isn't the best combination for them, but good for them.
Porter Jr. is nearly 6'11" and would play the PF position, but it's a technicality as forward positions are becoming more and more interchangeable. They are similarly built (thin) with versatile offensive games assuming Porter is healthy. He lacked the mobility that made him unique in high school in the three games he played in college. I never said Barnes's presence would stop them from drafting Porter, I only said they were similar. They're versatile forwards who are okay shooters and can create shots for themselves. Defense would be an issue (probably a major issue), but the good news is Dirk could mean Porter Jr. gets to have a year of recovery off the bench as he works his way back to full health.
I had the Mavs drafting Bamba at #5 as well in my mock from last Wednesday. I just believe a Randle/Bamba pairing makes more sense than you do. I never assumed anything on their end or claimed I know what they're thinking. That's all that is going on here. These tangential discussions has us spinning in circles. Let's move on.
To get back on topic:
I hope the Mavs draft a PF and thus don't make a big offer to Randle
I predict that they will draft a C and make a big offer to Randle
I'm standing still in the middle of whatever you and @Khmrp are talking about.
I'm just saying there's better paths forward than Julius for a lot of money in Dallas. Hopefully they agree. If they go after Bamba, I believe they'll consider Julius, but I'm doubtful they pursue as heavily as people are expecting.
In the end, this is Dallas. They'll likely strike out on the prime free agents anyways and end up giving bloated contracts to Derrick Favors and Wayne Ellington.
Unless someone locks Jordan in a broom closet again because he's a grown man who can't make his own decisions.