Oh stop with your move the needle. Look at the damn player that he is in the early stages of becoming. He's unique. He's Green with another set of strengths and skills. He's only 23 years old. He's the only really tough guy that actually likes to mix it up down low that we have and he's a force for us even against the largest centers now which was not the case at the beginning of the year, when we're playing "small". So many other things as well contributed to not moving the needle. Come on now.
Are you a family friend, a baby mama, a distant uncle....either way, why do you care so much how much the dude gets paid? The goal should be to retain him, have enough cap wiggle to round out the roster and compete for a f***ing chip! Jules on a team friendly deal makes him a valuable trade asset that other teams want...good for the Lakers Jules on a team friendly deal makes him a valuable team asset that would be idiotic to trade unless you get an absolute sure-fire stud back in a trade...good for the Lakers Jules on a team friendly deal allows the allocation of funds to address other team needs...good for the Lakers I'm in the business of whats good for the Lakers. 12-15M is just fine for the guy and his family....unless you really are a thirsty baby mama.
As @Battle Tested20 noted, Randle was willing to take 12M last year but then went out and had an awesome year. Well most of the year anyhow, as Walton played around with his minutes early on. Yeah other players make 3M for the entire year. Other players also make only 1M. Some make 10M. That has no relevance here in what type of raise he should reasonably expect or what he will get. In the end, Randle earned a legitimate raise from that 12M per year offer and 15M in all realism isn't that significant regardless of how you spin it. 3M is a ton of $ to us average joes. It's not to these athletes when they can reasonably get more. As a restricted free agent, of course the Lakers should let the market dictate his number. That's what the Wizards did with Otto Porter Jr. last summer, who subsequently got a MAX offer (26M per year) from a desperate Nets team and the Wizards matched it. Likewise for the Knicks making a huge offer sheet to Tim Hardaway Jr. of 17.8M per, which wasn't matched. All it takes is just one desperate team to drive up the price, knowing they have to overpay for restricted free agents. Last summer was a fairly tempered offseason in the way of spending by teams and Serge Ibaka got 21.7M per, Gallinari got 21.7M, Jeff Teague got 19M, Iguodala got 16M, Pau Gasol got 16M and James Johnson got 15M. On top of the aforementioned Otto Porter Jr. and Tim Hardaway Jr. deals. This wasn't exactly a star bunch in 2017. Yeah there aren't many teams with cap space this summer - far cry from 2016 - but I think the whole "It's a frigid market" aspect is being overblown. Randle will be a highly sought after player by the handful of teams that do have cap space because he's young, he's talented and he's productive. I don't think GMs will hold it against him that he was on a 35 win team when no one expected the Lakers to be good this season anyways. I understand why Laker fans hope for Randle to sign for 15M per because that's a legitimate bargain but I think people are grasping at straws as to why that'll ultimately be the case.
Exactly. I have a problem Vash with your unreasonable cap of only 15 mil that he should be happy with. Clarkson got 16 mil, granted from Mitch and Jim, but look how much more valuable Julius is now. He's got a young boy that in 3 years will be aware of what he does for a living and Juluis you can bank on wants to be great. We all hope for as low as possible above the not realistic 15 you want to throw at him. But if he gives up say 3 or 4 mil and it comes out at 16-18 and he's willing to lose over 12-16 mil over the 4 years to be a Laker you're going to be pissed it wasn't 15 mil for your unrealistic evaluation of what he is worth?
Eddie: We can't predict the market, but like the Porter example you brought up, LA will match any offer just like the Wiz did. I doubt we look to lose that type of asset for nothing. But the thing that makes it much more bearable for the Wiz is that they are a team that is operating above the cap cause they already locked in their 2 stars in Wall and Beal. Meanwhile, LA is still trying to get their stars locked up with their cap space. As much as I want Jules to succeed for us, I just don't see him as that star player for us. So it would be in our best interest to get him locked up on a 2nd tier type deal. I can stomach 15-17M, but the closer it gets to 20M, I think we're being too careless with our cap at that point. I'm not approaching it with what he deserves (although as of now, he isn't deserving)..I'm approaching it as what's smart for the Lakers. But if Jules does decide to sign a max type offer sheet, he is essentially signing away his future with the Lakers cause that is the first contract that will come up in any trade rumors moving forward. And unlike a team friendly deal, where the home team wants to keep that contract, if its a hefty deal, LA will be more eager to unload a contract like that. LT: You got bad franchises being extremely careless with their cap space and that is why this league has only a handful of legitimate title contenders every year. We don't want to be those middle-of-the-pack teams. Since we are a team that will be operating under the cap this summer, we need to be extremely mindful in how we handle contracts in rounding out our roster. Once we lock up our stars, then we can start operating as an over the cap team and be more carefree with our salary structure since it really won't cost us cap space for potential free agents, but rather only cost Jeanie and ownership more in luxury taxes....with our TV deal allowing us to pay any ridiculous tax bills with ease. Its not easy getting cap space, so when you do, you better allocate it wisely. Once you do, then it makes operating over the cap all the easier cause you already got all the key cogs of a title contender locked and loaded.
Fine. Just stop coming back to the 15mil figure that he should take it and like it. Stop having him decide to take the 20 or 22 mil. We're talking about him very conceivably being offered that and then hopefully he and the Lakers can sit down and have a heart to heart and come out with something less where both sides feel good about it. Not expecting Julius to then get screwed with a best offer of 15 mil. I'm just maintaining if they wind up having to pay 18 say .... that with the expected improvement year to year and his uniqueness in the league and on this roster .... that is still a bargain. It's not that I am vested in the dollar amount. The less the better. But I am very vested in keeping Julius Randle on this team. LBJ and PG should be too.
I disagree with everything in red. 18M is not a bargain. 12M is a bargain. But of course we can't say for sure till we see the market this summer. And why should I stop with the 15M price point....that's the salary I feel most comfortable with in giving him. You can be comfortable in giving him whatever you want as well. I'm not comfortable in giving Bron/George 66M either, cause if that's the case, we need to find a Deng dump and if we can't, guess whose rights get renounced? I'm expecting legit stars to take a pay cut so that Jules can fit into the cap structure...so of course I'm going to expect the kid to take much less than the max.
Sorry added a couple words at the end. The less the better. Yes! If he works with us then we be fair and don't be stupid with too low of an offer. This is why we have Magic and Rob and Luke who know him like no other and we hope they can sell him to take considerably less than he may very well be offered.
Julius averages 20/10/3 with a 61.2 TS% as a starter. A player like that is worth anywhere from $18M to the max. Anything less is a bargain.
I've been pondering something and I'm curious about your thoughts. Randle has always been a hard worker dedicated to improvement. But he has also shown to have focus issues (in game, not character related) in the past. How do we know his hard work will continue? His hardest work with the best results came during a contract year? Or am I wrong about his focus issues? Maybe they were conditioning issues where he looked disengaged? I'm honestly asking
That's a great point. I agree that his effort level and focus can fluctuate from game-to-game. In the past, a lot of it had to do with conditioning, which he's taken care of by transforming his body. I think the remaining part of the inconsistency is due to a combination of things. Some nights he gets discouraged playing against bigger and taller players, unable to get going offensively. Some nights he just doesn't have his A-game (mostly mentally/defensively ie positioning and alertness) which leads to frustration channeled through Luke. And some nights you could tell his mind is not in the game from the opening tip, which is inexcusable. I think it's all part of the maturation process. Some of our kids need to develop physically and some need to develop mentally. Julius is still 23 years old. He has 3 to 4 years before he hits his prime, and despite all his mental lapses, he still puts up 20/10/3 as a starter. But the main reason why I'm not too worried is because I know his head is in the right place. The improvements he's made every year is all I need to know about his future as a Laker. And one thing that no one really mentions about Julius is his performance in clutch situations. When the game is on the line, his motor goes through the roof and he often dominates by making winning plays. He's the type of player that we want on the team in the playoffs next year.
I'm fine with 18 millions a year , above this price it wouldn't be a good deal for us and if I were Julius I would feel insulted by any deal below 60/4. There are many players who are making 15-18 a year and who are inferior to Julius , it tends to be wings and the market was different by the time they signed their deal though . Just watched 2 of the 1st 3 payrolls : Bazemore 16.9 M this year then 18 then 19 Crabbe : 19 then 18.5 then 18.5 We all know Moz salary ....
@Punk-101 & @tada I also think it has a lot to do with LNJ being traded. Randle said it himself, playing time is golden. I think Randle having an increased role will keep him engaged going forward. If Randle is to stay on this squad, I really wonder how the pieces will fit if we're in a rush to to acquire 2 more forwards in the Kawhi/PG/Lebron sweepstakes. At this stage of his career, Randle might regress if he took on a smaller role. Not to mention Kuz and BI.
The bolded part is where we differ. I'm not approaching this as what is smart for the Lakers or what he deserves. I'm solely approaching it from the angle of what type of offer I think Randle could get and I remain of the opinion that he'll get an offer of 18M per with a shot at 20M per, if not more. Ultimately I think Randle just accepts the highest bid because this is his first big contract in the NBA and generally players just want to cash in after being on their rookie contracts for 4 years. Epecially if it comes from Dallas where he was born and raised and there is no state income tax - meaning even more $$$$$. I really don't have any reason to believe he would take a discount for the Lakers, regardless of how much he likes the team and their situation. IF he does, great.
Chicago and Atlanta both have ample room, but I think they're more in "we'll take bad contracts for draft picks" mode. I don't think they'll view Randle as the difference maker that gets them out of the cellar. It's possible, but there's not a lot of evidence supporting that Julius is that guy. I'd throw them Deng and half a dozen picks or something.
Eddie: I totally understand what you're saying. In the cap spike of 2016, Dallas was opportunistic and knew if GS was targeting KD, they wouldn't match Barnes. So they moved in with a 4 year 92M deal. But they also swung a deal with GS for Bogut, so there was a collaborative effort there between Dallas and GS. You can safely assume that they felt safe in tying up their cap with a restricted FA like Barnes cause they had intel that the Dubs wouldn't match. But Barnes/Bogut was technically a contigency cause they were trying to get Hassan and Conley as their plan A. Until last summer's quiet free agency, Dallas traditionally goes big game hunting for UFAs and then rebounds with a contigency that often involves trades and targeting RFAs once they strike out. Struck out on UFA Dwight, so they went with Monta Ellis. Struck out on UFA Melo, so they went with RFA Chandler Parsons. Struck out on UFA DJ (but the cLips found a door and a way to suddenly make him a RFA) so they went with Wes Matthews. Struck out on UFAs Hassan/Conley, so they went with RFA Barnes/traded for Bogut (who was later flipped at the trade deadline for Noel). We saw last summer in the hard stance the Mavs took in not overpaying for Noel...After they saw what happened to Parsons and Wes in pertaining to injuries. Pair that with the knowledge that even tho Jules is coming off a 82 game season, he does have a medical record that kept him out an entire season. Now pair that with the free agent market this summer and that has plenty of big game names and frontline players that are unrestricted. Then look at the bigger names that are restricted free agents. Then look at Dallas's history of not really screwing over other franchises with over the top offers to RFAs as their plan A (that's more of a Morey tactic). Jules will most likely be Dallas's contigency plan, which means that buys us time to lock up Brony and Georgie Fyi: Also Atl seems to be a destination that legit free agents can take off the list.
Paul George has a medical record that kept him out a year too. LOL. Julius played a physical game for us as Luke asked him to do and all 82 games.
LT... You're really on one bro. I've repeatedly said I wouldn't want to give legit all-stars and a legit champion in Bron max money so that they could keep Jules on the roster. If I'm not inclined to throw money at them dudes, why does it bother you so much that I wouldn't throw money at Jules? When you operate underneath the cap limit, you gotta be smart and calculative with it, otherwise you become a "middle of a pack" team. Once you lock in your key pieces to good team contracts, you are an over the cap team that can take way more risks financially...cause at that time the only consequence is a tax bill that our team can presently take on in spades with that Spectrum Sportsnet money. What are Jules personal accolades? All-star? All-NBA? All-Defense? Rookie of the year? Most improved player of the year? 6th man of the year? A f***ing participation ribbon? Based off his present achievements (or lack thereof) he's not worth anywhere north of 17M to me and that's my f***ing opinion. Why does it bother you so much haha
