Editorial- Has Kobe Already Ruined The Next Great Laker?

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by therealdeal, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Kobe Bryant is about as polarizing a figure as I've ever seen in sports. Kobe fans are all over the world and willing to defend his every action at the drop of a hat. If he shoots too much, there's a reason. If he had too many turnovers last night, there's a reason for that too. Kobe haters are just as quick to find reasons of their own. Hell, tearing down Kobe Bryant has become something of an art form at this point. Most complements of Kobe are either back-handed in some way or come with a comparison to some former great (mostly Jordan of course) that shows Kobe is inferior.

    One aspect of Kobe's career though is almost universally admired: his work ethic. In his recent interview with Ahmad Rashad on NBA-TV, Kobe talked about how he didn't even realize his work ethic was so great it was just what he did. He didn't realize it was above and beyond until he got to the NBA and saw other guys weren't working the same way. This work ethic was always impressive, but it wasn't until the last few years that people saw it for really what it was: maniacal.

    He was always the first in the gym, even after injuries. In fact he played through almost every injury you could think of, including this shoulder tear that he's apparently had for quite a while. His work ethic was such that even the great young players of today were inspired by it. There's countless stories over the years (here's a few) of how the way he worked was something people had never seen before. Those stories have been an inspiration to Laker fans everywhere.

    Now Kobe's work ethic has become a measuring stick for any and all newcomers. We as Laker fans expect the next player to lead us to the Championship to be just like Kobe. We expect him to be a cold-blooded killer on the court, to not take prisoners, to work harder than anybody else in the game. We expect him to hold his teammates accountable even if that means saying or doing something difficult. We expect the next player to carry Kobe's mantle forward to BE the NEXT Kobe. Fair or not we expect our next star to carry Kobe's legacy and his persona forward into a bright Laker future.

    The problem is Kobe spent so much time working on his craft and on his interests that he never formed tight bonds with anybody. Detailed in Ahmad Rashad's Interview with Kobe, and the GQ interview that dropped not long after, Kobe never had time to be a great friend because he's just too focused on his own work. In that GQ article he says he doesn't have time to sit around with people and BS because he's too busy focused on his own interests.

    Kobe doesn't have a social life with most NBA players. His interactions with them are almost always professional or involve a workout of some kind. Most consider Kobe socially awkward and unable to have that kind of relationship with people. He's so focused on his basketball career that it took a catastrophic Achilles injury to force him to focus on life after basketball; to consider what comes next? He'd sacrificed any semblance of normalcy for his legacy. Kobe wanted so badly to win that he's become nothing else BUT that.

    So are we as fans expecting too much of the next franchise star to don a Laker jersey? Is it too much to ask that the next player to get the Lakers to the promise land sacrifice as much as Kobe did? We as Laker fans shunned Dwight Howard because he didn't capitulate to Kobe's awesome demands. Howard, like Shaq before him, wanted to win a "different way". However, unlike Shaq before him Howard might be incapable of winning that "different way".

    That doesn't necessarily mean it can't be done though. Before Kobe took up the mantle of carrying the Lakers, Magic carried that load. Magic partied as much or more than any of the players in the NBA today. Magic was always a host to social gatherings and won with a huge smile on his face. The difference between Magic and Howard of course being that Magic could separate that fun from basketball. On the court, Magic wanted to win as much as anybody ever has. His battles with Larry Bird and Michael Jordan are legendary, despite being able to have fun when he wasn't playing.

    The next Laker star is in for a tumultuous ride. Whether that person is Julius Randle, maybe one of the kid's coming in this 2015 NBA Draft, or a player on another team right now, he is going to have his hands full competing with the shadows of Kobe Bryant. Every second that person isn't working out, fans will wonder, "why not"? Every time that player is caught out at a night club, we'll say, "Kobe wouldn't have done that"! Hey if Kobe could get up at 3 AM to be the first person the gym working on his off-hand or his post game or his shooting form with a cast on his fingers... If Kobe can be a maniac for 19 seasons, why can't the next guy keep up? Not every player can be Kobe Bryant. In fact not every great player achieves that greatness the way Kobe did.

    As much as I'll miss watching Kobe Bryant in a Laker uniform in the coming years, I look forward to the next incarnation of Laker greatness. Will that player be a cold-blooded winner who doesn't need friends like Kobe? Will that player be a dominating physical presence with an even more dominating personality like Shaq? Will that player be a visionary like Magic? Maybe an aloof, unstoppable giant like Kareem? A quiet, diligent worker like West? A dynamic athlete like Baylor?

    Whoever he is, I'm going to try to appreciate him for his own personality and his own quirks. It'll be impossible not to compare him to Kobe Bryant but hopefully we can, as Kobe would say, appreciate the process.
     

    Attached Files:

    fabulus, John3:16, thkthebest and 7 others like this.
  2. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Offline
    Great post, real.

    I don't think the next star will fill Kobe's shoes in that way. I hope Kobe (and Lakers fans) don't compare him to Kobe (too much). That's a huge burden to carry! Should they strive to be better than him? Of course. But I think the way they will be successful is if they make their own name for themselves with the Lakers. I mean, if that guy is Julius Randle, Jimmy Butler, Kevin Durant ... they likely will wrestle the shadow of Kobe, but I guess I am more interested to see them evolve and win on their own, to see how their story in Purple and Gold goes. The Lakers are a great franchise who have seemingly always had superstar talents on the roster ... from Jerry West and Wilt to Kareem and Magic to Shaq and Kobe to Kobe and Pau. Each player/duo have had their own story. Instead of comparing the next star to Kobe I hope fans realize no one will ever fill his shoes. Like the other stars didn't fill the shoes of previous stars. I don't know if that really makes sense right now, but I guess I am hoping that the next big star in purple and gold isn't brought down by "well, he isn't Kobe."
     
    fabulus and LTLakerFan like this.
  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Thanks Snake!

    I know what you're saying and I have the same hope. I think a lot of Laker fans on this site are completely willing to embrace the next franchise player for who they are, at least at first. I think that's especially true if that player ends up being one of our draft picks. I think we at LB would love to watch one of our guys grow and develop into the next big thing in their own way.

    However at the same time we ran Howard out of town for not being like Kobe. I know for myself at least that I found myself quickly getting angry at Nash for not being able to play through his injuries like Kobe did. I was angry at Pau for not being tougher like Kobe was.

    That shadow is going to be there and part of me thinks that if the next player is Durant or Westbrook or some other half-way established star, we as fans are going to shoe him into the Kobe Bryant role. If it's a young cat that still has a long way to develop, we might be more lenient.

    I just wanted to remind Laker fans two things: 1) Kobe is one of a kind and a once in a lifetime player and 2) there's been a pantheon of great Lakers and like you said each of them lead in their own way. It'll be sad to see Kobe go, but part of me is really beginning to look forward to the next guy and what he will bring.
     
  4. JSM

    JSM - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    64,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Great read Real. I think it will definitely could be a big issue, depending on the player. LA and NY are the two biggest NBA markets, that won't change anytime soon regardless of the on the court performance. Both are incredibly demanding and tough on the players. LA because we as fans are spoiled by greatness and New York because it's New York. You have to have extremely thick skin to make it in LA as THE GUY. Not only with the pressure from the media, but from the fans. Kobe has spoiled us rotten with the level of accountability he holds himself to even at this age. This is a different league today. You can count players like that on one hand and still have fingers leftover. It's certainly not for everyone, Dwight proved that. Rather than rise to it, most in the AAU, best friends league where they party together and tweet one another, that's a breed that dies that Kobe.

    The comparison will be there. I think the next guy, whoever he is will need to differentiate himself from Kobe immediately to try and step out of that shadow just a little. It'll be a little easier if it's not a two guard. A big, especially a rookie, would have an easier time. Kids are easier to forgive. They're young and still have plenty of mistakes to make and to learn from, Kobe did too when he was a kid. I think Okafor would have the easiest path to stardom here because of that and being the most ready to perform. Just look at Chicago. After MJ left, people were kind of scared to go there (incompetent management didn't help) and attempt to be the next guy in Chicago. Hell, it's intimidating 15 years later...I can't imagine the year after his retirement. It's still MJ's house with his jersey dawned by fans scattered all throughout the arena, with his jersey hanging above your head, and a statue of him outside...it'll be the same way with Kobe in 15 years. Winning certainly helps separate yourself. If in the next decade the new guy is able to nab a ring or two here, that'll go along way in establishing his own legacy as a Laker.
     
    LTLakerFan and therealdeal like this.
  5. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,691
    Likes Received:
    22,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    I'm not sure I understand your title. If you are asking if the next Laker star needs to be a Kobe clone to be embraced by Laker fans, the examples you gave of Magic and Shaq who were both HUGE fan favorites answers your question.

    Lakers fans have embraced:

    Jerry West / Elgin / Wilt / Kareem / Magic / Worthy / Byron / Rambis / Coop / AC Green / Nick Van Exel / Eddie Jones / Ceballos / Shaq / Kobe / Pau / LO / Swaggy

    That's a very broad spectrum of personalities. A few players on that list weren't even champions.

    I think most knowledgeable fans realize that another Kobe is not walking through that door anytime in the next decade or three.
     
  6. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I do agree that the natural progression would be a big-man next or at least not a SG type.

    We started with Mikan, then Baylor, then West, then Kareem, then Magic, then Shaq, and then Kobe... Oh yeah with some Worthy, Gasol, and Wilt mixed in there. It's easier to forge your own path when your path isn't so easily aligned with another person's. Kobe's path as a wing will certainly be a hard act to follow.

    That's actually why I think Randle COULD be that guy. He's got the mentality and he brings a unique skill set to the team. A 6'9" guy with his strength and athleticism who can bring the ball up the floor? I mean he doesn't quite fit into any of the Lakers' previous categories. If he keeps developing (and gets healthy), it could definitely be him.
     
    Ryanwestlombardi and LTLakerFan like this.
  7. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    And yet here we are on this site constantly comparing players to Kobe. We use Kobe as the benchmark to say why LeBron isn't as great. We sided with Kobe when Howard was here.

    I agree that we as fans can certainly accept the next generation, but it's not going to be as easy as I think you make it seem.

    Besides the point isn't necessarily for us, but for the next person coming through. How many players WANT to step into that shadow? JSM pointed out that few players wanted to step into Michael's. How will Kobe's differ?
     
    LTLakerFan likes this.
  8. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,691
    Likes Received:
    22,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    I guess I'll just disagree then. Laker fans were already fully embracing Julius Randle before his injury, not because they saw Kobe in him, but they saw a spark of his own potential greatness.

    Fans LOVE Swaggy P, and I could describe him as the Anti-Kobe.
     
    Ryanwestlombardi likes this.
  9. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    You don't think Julius Randle has some Kobe in him? I gravitated towards the kid too, but that's because I absolutely saw some Kobe in him. The way he controlled the ball and tempo in Summer League. The way he casually commands double and triple teams. His answers with the media, his confidence. Kobe was his favorite player growing up. I see a lot of similarities in their styles actually.

    And do you not agree with the other side of the coin? That players might not want to step into that shadow?
     
    LTLakerFan likes this.
  10. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,691
    Likes Received:
    22,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    No, I don't really see Kobe in Randle. Magic was Kobe's favorite growing up but I see MJ not Magic in him.

    I absolutely agree that a lot of players would hesitate to step into Kobe's shadow. I didn't really see that as the main point of your post though. I was disagreeing with whether Laker fans will hold other players to the Kobe standard, or whether they embrace them for their own talent and personality.
     
  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I'm pretty surprised you don't see any Kobe in Randle. I see a lot of it, but maybe that's just me. Kobe might say Magic was his favorite player growing up, but he idolized Mike. He made Mike the standard with which to base himself off of. I'm not saying Randle is doing that with Kobe in terms of what they do on the floor, but Randle already has exhibited some very Kobe-esque behaviors and mannerisms to the media.

    And again, I'm not saying we WON'T accept the next star, but that the next star shouldn't be judged by what Kobe has done. You may disagree with me, but we already did that once with Howard. It turned out to be the right call, but what's to say that doesn't happen again with someone like Durant if that ends up happening? We as fans will adjust and accept whichever player chooses to come to LA, but I still think that player's tenure as a Laker will be measured against Kobe to a large degree by a large number of Laker fans.
     
    LTLakerFan likes this.
  12. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,691
    Likes Received:
    22,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    Again, I'll disagree. I didn't reject Howard for his lack of Kobe characteristics. I would have embraced Howard if he had shown 50% of the fire that Shaq or even Pau had in their best moments. I rejected Howard because he proved to be a soft diva.

    You and I both know that IF Durant ever makes his way here the entire city will instantly fall in love with him.
     
  13. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Oh I think that would happen for sure at first. You'd see the billboards and the headlines and the fun stuff. But heaven forbid Durant has a cold streak or something or the team misses the playoffs even built around Durant. You know what I mean? When the going gets tough I think the next star is going to have a firestorm of comparisons and negativity because they're not Kobe or Magic. Durant is already 7 years deep and has only made one Finals appearance. I just wonder if we can temper expectations to meet the personnel.

    Then again our expectations right now are so rock bottom... one Finals appearance sounds like Heaven compared to this.
     
    LTLakerFan likes this.
  14. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Messages:
    10,248
    Likes Received:
    28,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Great read Real.

    I think the Laker nation will embrace the next guy up. Once you put on the jersey you are pretty much one of us. We even tried to embrace guys like Karl Malone and Steve Nash despite their being big parts of rival teams for so long. And I think another sign of that is how much most fans embraced Gasol.

    It's cliche, but the bottom line is always winning. Or at least be exciting and show some pride in wearing the jersey.

    I think the latter is where Dwight fell short. He just came across to me as a guy who had one foot out of the door as soon as he got here. He also seemed to want the crown just handed to him instead of really going out on the court and earning it. So while I think people tried to embrace Dwight, at least at first, his act wore thin pretty quickly as the losses mounted up. The issues with Kobe didn't help, but it just came across like he was doing the same routine he did with the Magic and no one was feeling it. I also think it's pretty clear from all the shots directed at him by various players around the league that Dwight isn't viewed too favorably by a lot of guys.
     
    Ryanwestlombardi and LTLakerFan like this.
  15. 432J

    432J - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    6,450
    Likes Received:
    14,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    there will never be another kobe, we all know that. whether it's in regards to work ethic, skill, personality, anything. kobe is the last of his kind.

    i think we'd all rather the next lakers superstar carve out his own legacy rather than "following in the footsteps" of kobe and there definitely won't be any issue in embracing him. kobe lives for everything that comes with wearing the purple and gold. the tradition, the success, the pressure. the same goes for past "franchise players" like west, magic, kareem, and shaq.

    a lot of us thought howard would be the next franchise player but he never truly wanted to be in LA in the first place and definitely didn't share anything in common with any of the past names i've mentioned. randle can very well be that guy, we will just have to wait and see
     
  16. puffyusaf#2

    puffyusaf#2 - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Messages:
    3,490
    Likes Received:
    3,569
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Author of "Just a Thought"
    Location:
    GNW Doing things
    Offline
    Good read Real.

    I honestly don't think the legacy of Kobe or his work ethic will be a problem for the next star for a couple of reasons. First, like you stated, Kobe's work ethic is legendary and his ability to play through pain/injuries is other-worldly compared to other players. Even the biggest Kobe hater recognizes that singularity in him. So I don't believe any one would realistically try to hold anyone to "THAT" standard. Now, our next star would be crucified if the went the D. Rose route or the DWade being carried off the court like he just got shot. Second, the lean years for Lakers fans have us starving for anyone with the skill and drive to want to bring a Championship. Fans soured on Howard not because he wasn't Kobe but mainly because he WAS Dwight. The guy complained about touches and then would have a million turnovers. He complained about being in the game late then missed more free throws than Donald Trump obviously misses mirrors. Lakers fans love that personable, reachable player that is larger than life. We loved Ron Artest. We loved Nick Young. Before the injuries we loved Nash. We loved Shaq. Two of those guys brought the results (Shaq/Artest) and two did not (Nash-injury and Nick-Brain cramps). I also believe the fact we are starving for some success at this point will help the next star player who shows ANY sign of fight, pride and go get it attitude we are use to with our franchise.
     
  17. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    At the gym guys I'll get back to you. Thanks for the responses!
     
  18. Alcindor

    Alcindor - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2,659
    Likes Received:
    5,954
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga
    Offline
    I'd like to think that when Kobe leaves a void will be created and like a vacuum, it will seek to be filled. Just like when MJ left Kobe was just in the league a few years and not developed yet. It's easy to get nostalgic over players you've watched for an entire career but despite changes to the game and a general softening of players, there really hasn't been a time in the NBA where you couldn't think of a player of like caliber (adjusted for that era's athleticism standards etc) and there will be more. However these were not always Lakers and that's another story. This part rests in the hands of Jim Buss. I don't think the next great Laker will be ruined by Kobe, but if he isn't acquired by Buss, we may wait a long long time.
     
    therealdeal and LTLakerFan like this.
  19. ShowTime_IR

    ShowTime_IR - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Offline
    Well, Clarkson seems to look a little bit crazy too. ;)
     
  20. The Showtime Mamba

    The Showtime Mamba - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    3,418
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::devil::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

    I applaud this lucid articulate and genuine post Real. For it is something that has surely crossed every Laker fans mind. Why did Kobe work so hard? Because he was aiming for becoming the greatest of all time. His work ethic is a credit to his respect for those who have come before him and a tribute to his confidence (ego is not a dirty word when it makes you strive to reach your full potential). We don't expect Sacre to go full Batman and train 20 hours a day (just stay tough, stay fit, improve a little bit and maybe up his trade value.

    What I am saying in my ornately loquacious manner is this....... We set different rules for different players. Nick can slump because if he ever gets to Ariza level value on this team than he is a winner. Howard came in as our next franchise player and wanting to replace Kobe. His attitude and delusion soured him to a fanbase desperate for him to work. So much so that when he left I was displeased, but then ultimately satisfied (wished we could have traded him even as try and buy rental - ahh retrospect). We all would have embraced Nash if he could have had any health left. Unfortunately his dealing with mortality at one of our franchise nadirs has left a bad taste in most of our mouths (I am guilty of venting on Steve Ca$h's Laker career). Lin.... well he just did us and himself no favors and I will not repeat my nothing rant again

    Is Randle like Kobe? Am I tricking myself? Know I endorse the comments that his maturity, drive, chip on his shoulder (Kobe chip not Demarcus chip) really are Kobe like. Clarkson is our season glimmer of hope, and little anecdotes like him studying his laptop and watching footage of himself (Kobe studying not Nick stylin' and profilin' studying) makes me think of Kobe.

    I think fundamentally Kobe's physical decline has seen me mature as a fan. Kobe has faded, Magic was taken. I can remember hearing that Magic Johnson had HIV. HIV - (thankfully modern medicine meant he never developed full blown AIDS) was a death sentence equal to cancer (as far as John Q Public knew) and despite returns, all star games, coaching and tweets (I hate the tweets) it was a clean break. I think I will not hold the next franchise player (looking longingly at you Durant) up to Kobe standards in terms of work ethic. It's just not fair and I know that. If Durant would come to L.A, I and i presume 95% of the fanbase would be so happy, he could commit anything short of war crimes or hate crimes and be forgiven.

    Who would we not embrace? Money and position determines this. Any player taking a spot they don't deserve (someone mentioned Luke asking for Ariza to replace him as a starter now that was class and why I still fondly remember Luke) even FIsh tested our patience as a starter in his last two years. 20 million dollar Dragic (or should I say 100 million Dragic) I think we start to hate. 12 million dollar Dragic comes here and I am tempted to change my name to Dragic Johnson or the Dragic Mamba. 20 million dollar 30 percent ft Rondo could become the C bag traitor for us. We always hear about bad Laker fans (it comes from having an epic fanbase) but as real Laker fans I think we can show some balance. Not every big has to be Kareem Shaq and every guard does not have to be West or Kobe, which is why we liked Odom, Van Exel, Eddie jones, Antawn. But what we do have as a franchise is a form of rabid progeria. If we rebuild we want it done now, if we see a chance for a championship we better go all in. If Kobe could embrace his teams mediocrity and lack of manic drive, than I think I can too.
     

Share This Page