Summer League Stat Watch ( My Best Attempt!)

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by therealdeal, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I am by no means a statistician and as much time as I love spending on here and watching the Lakers, my time still has limits. I've only had time to analyze the first half of the 2nd game but I found some good stuff.

    After it became apparent the stat keepers at the Summer League are either drunk or not paying attention, I decided to try to keep stats myself. Instead of going for just traditional stats though, I tried to keep track of a few others. The one that I really wanted to look into was Effective Screen Setting. For some reason we run the Princeton offense which is predicated on ball-movement, man-movement, and off-ball screens. I wanted to see just how effective those screens are because we never seem to be open off of them. An "Effective Screen" in my opinion is one that makes contact with the player and creates space for the ball handler.

    I also looked at Close Outs on Shooters, Caught Ball Watching, Hedging/Rotating, and Changed Shots (instead of blocked shots). The last one I checked for was Effective Box Outs which mean box out attempts that result with the ball in our possession. I think the stat might need tweaking since it doesn't count good box outs that don't result in our possession, but oh well. That's where we're at for now.

    I'll do the rest of the game later and give you all more complete stats, but here's some interesting notes for now:

    Robert Upshaw lead the pack easily with seven effective screens set. He rarely tried to set a screen that didn't connect. In contrast Tarik Black set only two effective screens, but he set probably ten more that just didn't connect with anyone or create any space for the ball handler.

    Larry Nance Jr. is a box-out boss. Of the entire team only two people boxed out effectively. That means they put their butt out, got their legs bent, and kept their defender behind them. Larry Nance did it four times in the first half and Tarik did it once. Nobody else boxed out effectively on the team. That doesn't mean we didn't get boards, it just means nobody else really was willing to put in that kind of work down low besides Nance Jr.

    The hedging/rotating stat is also probably in need of tweaking. I was trying to find a stat that showed which guys were effective help defenders. As it is, I saw that Tony Mitchell and Robert Upshaw did the best job hedging on screens and shooters AND the best job of rotating to the open man. Anthony Brown also did a fairly good job of this (but he showed some excellent effort all around defensively).

    On the other side of the ball, Jordan has been the one caught ball watching for a score. Really this stat is meant for Randle who I saw doing this a lot in the first game, but Jordan got caught the first half. The team in general has their eyes too much on the ball, but Jordan was the only one who got caught for a score (Jakar Sampson cut on him after penetration from Philly's PG).

    The Changed Shot stat will come in handy with guys like Hibbert. There's no surprise but the one who did the best job of this was Robert Upshaw. In the first half he changed three shots just by being big around the basket. Tony Mitchel changed two shots. Larry Nance Jr., JC, and Russell all changed one shot defensively. Clarkson did it on a jump shooter and Russell did a good job in transition.

    I'll try to get the rest soon if I find the time for it, but I thought you guys might find a few of these interesting. Larry Nance Jr. absolutely kills with his hustle out there and Tony Mitchell is more useful than the stat sheet indicates. I'd really like to see him in camp if he doesn't get a big offer from overseas.
     
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  2. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Cool. Thanks. It'd be cool if you can keep this going through the season, too.
     
  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll do my best. Stat watch is time consuming. :D
     
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  4. karacha

    karacha Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah man, this is terrific! In game 1 I counted 4 assists for Russ in the first quarter, they gave him 2. I don't think their tracing is very accurate at all. And yeah, Nance is great.
     
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  5. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    The thing with Russell is he's seeing passes guys aren't seeing BUT he's also taking too long to get there. He consistently can catch guys like Upshaw and Black open around the rim in ways I haven't seen since Magic. He'll put the ball in just the right place while the opponent's head is turned and they can get an easy layup. Black fumbled the ball once and Russell waited too long to get Upshaw the ball. Both were excellent passes though.
     
  6. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    Yeah, like I said in the Summer League thread, Tony Mitchell is doing a lot of little things that has got some notice from myself.

    If we can replace Sacre and Kelly with Upshaw and Mitchell, that would be nice.
     
  7. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]



    What do you think we're paying you for?
     
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    What do you mean empty? I see money in there!
     
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  10. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I need that penny for my loafers! I'll get around to the 2nd half hopefully by tonight...

    hard ***es always getting on my case!
     
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  11. Chillbongo

    Chillbongo - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Thanks for that real. I've always said traditional stats leave out key factors like screen setting, aspects of defense - like hedging and shot altering - hockey assists, things like that.

    Advanced stats are helpful to an extent but they too are with many flaws. Some advanced stats are better than others.

    BTW - where can I rewatch the summer league games? Been looking for them
     
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  12. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I feel the same way which is why I thought I'd try my hand at recording some of these stats.

    TWC shows them sporadically throughout the day, but I just DVR them so I can go back and watch it at my leisure.
     
  13. jerryr88

    jerryr88 - Rookie -

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    i was very impressed with anthony brown's defense. there was one particular play where he shut his opponent down and reggie miller made a point of it and gave him his props

    if he can consistently play D and knock down the 3 he will be a huge asset.
     
  14. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

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    I feel so sorry for you if you plan on doing the stats for today's game.
     
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  15. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll finish Saturday's game first and... probably forget this last game ever existed.
     
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  16. scnottaken

    scnottaken - Rookie -

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    Actually the stats for this game should be fairly simple:
    Everyone: Everything:0
     
  17. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay so here's the 2nd Half/Totals that pop out to me:

    Tarik had jumped out to me as a disappointing screen setter in the first half, but he recovered well in the second. He set 9 overall Effective Screens throughout the game, but he probably had at least 20-25 screen attempts that just didn't land or didn't produce room for the ball handler. Robert Upshaw stands out as just an enormous load setting screens. He's maybe the only player that benefits from the Princeton set because when he sets a screen up top, he's often able to seal fairly deep down low once the ball handler takes the screen. The problem is they never looked to him after the screen. I give him tremendous credit for setting screens and playing defense while never getting rewarded offensively. Upshaw set 18 Effective Screens throughout the game, almost as much as the rest of the team combined. Larry Nance did a pretty good job as well with 8 total Effective Screens. Mitchell and Clarkson each had one and Anthony Brown had two.

    Boxing out is a stat that I'll need to adjust moving forward, but there wasn't much action here. I'm going to have to say a good box out doesn't require possession for the Lakers because Nance did a good job consistently throughout the game. He lead the way with 6 Effective Box Outs. Mitchell had 1 and Black had 2. I noticed that most guys don't box out with the Lakers. They just stand in front of their opponent and try to use their length to get boards. Another thing I noticed was that 2-3 times Upshaw had great box out position and form but the ball would bounce a little out of his reach and he'd miss the rebound. It was strange that it happened so often, but I suspect his leg strength just isn't where he expects it to be. He boxes out decently expecting to get the ball, but he can't quite reach it where he usually would.

    The team was pretty active defensively as a whole. Clarkson and Anthony Brown lead the way on close outs to shooters (that resulted in a missed shot) with 4 each. Mumford had 2, Mitchell and Nance Jr. each had 1, and Russell had 3 on his own. I noticed that shooters on the perimeter were often surprised by D'Angelo's length when he challenges shots and D'Angelo showed good willingness to run out on shooters when he was in the area. That'll be a nice little wrinkle to his value.

    Ball watching that resulted in a score (I opened it to also include a foul) only happened a few times: twice with Clarkson and once with Anthony Brown. I tend not to worry about those two though because they were absolutely flying around the perimeter and working their tails off defensively. I think they got caught napping because they were just a little too unfocused and trying to do too much.

    Hedging and Rotating defensively was dominated by the bigs and specifically Larry stood out to me. I saw great effort from Upshaw with 5 overall EH&R points, who showed spectacularly on screens. He moved his feet well, hedged way out on the screen, but often a little too far and then he'd have trouble getting back into the paint once the ball moved. In a year or two when his legs are stronger and he's in better shape, look out. Mitchell did a really good job of rotating within the defense. Hedging not so much, but rotating along the perimeter and to close the paint he did a good job with 5 overall. Brown had 4 EH&R points, Russell and Black had 1 each, Clarkson had 2 total. The star though was Nance Jr. He had 6 overall Effective Hedging and Rotating points and was simply all over the place. He was terrific at closing off the lane on screens, he rotated help side to make up for Robert and Tarik getting beat to the rim, I mean the guy was fantastic.

    Changed shots was dominated by Upshaw and surprisingly Anthony Brown. Like I said, Anthony Brown was flying around the court with four altered shots. He was changing jump shots with his length and ability to close to the ball. He was running into the lane to change layup attempts and disrupt the opponent's offense. He played a great defensive game. Upshaw of course was the star at shot altering with five total shots altered. When Upshaw is active in the paint he changes the way guards get to the rim. Robert struggled against Okafor inside, but in a league with few dominate post players Upshaw's potential value as a defensive Center is tremendous. Nance Jr. did well altering shots with three total. His athleticism is really sudden. Guys expect him to be standing still and suddenly he's REALLY high in the air. Clarkson and Russell each finished with one changed shot which makes some sense given they're our point guards and shouldn't really be doing much of that. Tony Mitchell again showed some value with two changed shots. I like the way Mitchell does all the little things. If his shot falls just a little more regularly, he's an NBA player.
     
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  18. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    :clap:
     
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  19. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    This is good stuff.
     
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  20. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks! I'll try to do Game 3 as well so we can get a few comparative numbers.
     

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