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Just watching this argument makes me think how risky this signing could be. His lack of production gives me pause. I can see he has some skills that could help us but I worry that whatever is keeping him from achieving on his last two teams would also hurt him here. If anything the spotlight in LA will make it even harder on him. Risky move, I think the Lakers now have enough people on board that they will fully evaluate him and make the right choice.

 

I am not a dildo expert I just like how it sounds describing a knob head. Pun intended.

 

I still like Ellis and would gladly sign him this summer. I do think, however, that the last year has shown that the league maybe doesn't view him as favorably as fans do. Ellis was just about every fanbase's favorite 3&D trade target going into the season and got traded for Deandre Hunter, whom most fans (correctly IMO) thought was a bad contract. Although that may be because Sacramento is just dumb.

I think Ellis would look much better here because we're one of the best shot creation teams in the league and a lot of that shot creation comes from wing-sized players (Luka and LeBron). I think with Cleveland the idea was that Ellis would be a 3&D guard that could play next to Mitchell or Harden, which is why I liked that fit for him at the time, but it turned out that Cleveland really needs to have 2/3 of Mitchell/Harden/Schroder on the court at all times to generate good offense because Mobley hasn't taken that step, Allen is just a roll guy and no one else on the team can really generate offense. And if you need to have two of those guards on the court, you want more size out there to defend wings because those guards (except Harden) are better served defending guards. Whereas we have two wing-sized shot creators, as well as Austin, so there's a clear need for someone to guard smaller players and spot up for threes.

It's a little like the situation here with Rui. Of course in a vacuum you'd like to have a big wing that's a knockdown shooter. But when your two best players are also wing-sized guys, it's just tough to play Rui with them when none of the three can defend guards well.

 

This sums it up.

 

Brilliant analysis, I agree 100%

 

Tony Gwynn was Magic. Junior Seau was Kobe.

 

Great use of logic in your post.

 

This means very little if he cant make an open shot.Look the guy has talent and tools but loses confidence easily on the offensive end.To easily IMO. I don’t question his talent I question his ability to handle adversity.Take Marcus Smart for example.The guy is a bad shooter but he has the mind to overcome his limitations beyond measure.I see very little of that in Ellis if any.

 

Lol..they are going to keep hope alive, for as long as possible. Some folks around here, went pretty far out on limb, touting this kid as the next big thing. Walking that back, is a tough pill to swallow. Nobody is ever wrong, about anything on this board, but Slick.

 

Half of the role players in the league sucked in other places.
We literally have 2 waived players in our starting 5. Caruso was dying in Chicago. Toppin was a non-factor in NY. Dunn was almost out of the league in Chicago and Minny. Queta was on a 2-way in Sac. DJJ non-existent in Chicago (?). We got Malik Monk on a vet mind or low exception. The list goes on and on.

Role players are all about fit. They don't have a versatile talent. They are good or elite in a couple of things and can excel in the right context or be average among the rest of the competition because that's what they are in raw talent compared with the rest of the league. That's why they need a specific context to thrive. The guy above laid out perfectly why Ellis would work in our context and why he may be struggling in Cleveland

I really think Ellis is a no brainer at this point, particularly because he should be much cheaper. I'll be really mad if he sign for another team under 10M and it's not us


On Schroder impact in Cleveland:


Basketball is more than stats and making baskets. Cleveland does miss some leadership and having a guy that won things and is used to it helps. Dennis has quite a good career and apparently is helping with his leadership. Great for us

 

What specific context are we talking about, in the role Ellis supposed to provide? The guy that you put on small guards? Why is that perceived to be our big issue? It looks like Shroeder is considered to be a better look at that, than Ellis for two stops in a row. Maybe we should bring Dennis back?
What makes Ellis a better fit than Luke here?

 

It's an old topic with you. Me and others think we need a POA and you always argued against. I really disagree with you.
For me, it's very clear we don't have anyone but Smart to put on guards. It's not by chance that this team is better with Smart in the lineup than Rui. Please explain me why that happened?

Luka guards forwards. That leaves AR and another guy to defend guards. As we all don't want AR with the toughest assignment, our 3rd perimeter guy needs to be one that defends the best guard of the other team. Luka doesn't get blown by 50 times, AR doesn't spend so much energy on defense and is better on offense and the whole team makes more sense.

Plus, that's when things get interesting. I really want to add a couple defensive menaces to the group so we can deploy lineups during the game like Luka/AR, Smart, Ellis + another defender and Hayes and stuff like that.
We had a few good moments with all-defensive lineups with this group too, but Vando is too one-dimensional but with better 3&D we can play a lot with lineups depending on what the game needs

I want Luke. But between Luke or Ellis/defender I prefer the latter. We need that more than Luke. Hopefully we can get both while adding a Watson type

My priorities:
1. Smart
2. Long, athletic wing
3. POA defender
4. Ayton/center if he opts out
5. Bron (at this point it's at a hefty discount)
6. Luke
7. Couple 3&D budget finds like LaRavia

 

He's already been in the Western Conference, now he has problems in the Eastern Conference. He's a tweener more specialist than regular rotation guy at this point. 10M dollar contract? I wouldn't do it.

https://kingjamesgospel.com/cavs-ke...elf-millions-free-agency?page_source=v_recirc

 

When has POA been the big issue for us in a playoff series? Denver twice, Minnesota, Houston? When?
Most of the good teams have decent size and length at guard, and 3's that can handle the rock. When they put him in P&R what then? He's had similar issues in Sacramento and Cleveland.

 

Good reading. There's a 2nd article about him too.

I think each person reads what they want. It's clear he has underwhelmed, that's why this is even a discussion. But it's also clear Toronto is an awful matchup, they have Ingram, Barnes and Barrett in the wings and Toronto hunted those mismatches.

Now, I completely agree he is showing to be a liability in a playoff matchup. But that's why he's not worth 20M right now, but rather below 10.
There's a bunch of qualities highlighted in those articles, he clearly has the ability to be impactful and those qualities are exactly what we lack. He's not perfect, but no role player is.

Still a no brainer for me at below 10

 

How can you say Denver when Murray is MJ against us?
And why didn't you reply to my question? Why are we better with Smart than with Rui?


What 3s handle the ball in the West? OKC best player is PG. Spurs have the alien/center and then 3 guards. Minny is a SG. Denver is center than PG. Phoenix is SG. Warriors is PG. Utah shot creator is PG.
Only Houston with Amen (playing at PG btw), Portland with Deni and Clippers with Kawhi have dominant forwards

 

Lol..Ellis is the Murray stopper? When did this happen?
Rui should have been coming off the bench in the first place but I digress on that one.

Williams handles the rock in OKC. SGA is 6'6 Caruso and Dort are too strong for him.

Booker, Green and Brooks..Who does he guard?

Ant is too big, Ayo is bigger, McDaniels can handle the rock..what good does he serve here?

Who does he match up with on the Spurs? Fox, Cassel, Vassel, Harper?

Denver is a bit different with Jokic but Murray and Braun are 6'5 and 6'6. Everyone I mentioned is more physical than Ellis.

 

The 2nd article says the same thing..he's soft. That one was just more forgiving about it. Suggested that he bulk up. There are plenty bad matchups in the West too brother. Now that you've come down to below 10M..I can have a better conversation with you about him. 5M..that's all I 'm willing to pay him.

NOW.I do like Watson..he's in the mold of Wiggins, Grant ...long with the ability to guard 2-4 on switches. Watson has more pop athleticly IMO.

 

I like this Jenkins kid from Detroit