Jaxson Hayes Discussion: Looking Lost

lol, apparently more than we've had!

 

Yeah, we could have had a few that went to other teams last summer for not much- it just wasn’t a concern of Rob’s for some strange reason.
It’s a guards League, ya know! Don’t tell that to Boston, Denver, or Cleveland(their bigs are their real advantage over Mitchell IMHO).

 

maybe, but boston tried to win without guards before holiday got there, and it went poorly. denver also has murray. you need both.

but yeah, i pointed out earlier in the year how few teams try to staff the center position entirely with vet mins (basically: us).

 

Yes, you do need both, but it’s not like all the best players (top 5)each season are guards. Their are more wings and bigs that I feel contribute more to winning than small guards.

 

The top 3 teams in the NBA play two bigs. Most of the better teams in the League play two bigs. We need to upgrade ours, most definitely. I don't think JJ believes in the two way guys. He doesn't seem to find Len that useful either, it is what it is

 

disagree that boston plays two bigs--at least in the sense we're discussing. horford and zinger are really both pfs who play center. horford's basically lebron's size. zinger weighs less than either.

also from a team building perspective, you want different things from your center position depending on the rest of the roster. we went from wanting a bruiser to wanting a lob threat/switchy shotblocker after we moved AD for luka.

as for small guards not working, i think gs is kind of the primary example of that being a viable path. just depends who it is.

anyway, once again, i do think it's pretty weird that we invest so little in the center position, year after year, when pretty much nobody else tries to just trot out a stable of vet mins at that spot (or at any spot, really). our four highest paid players are forwards. of our top 8, only reaves and vincent make over minimum and don't play forward. kleber's really a 4, too, and he hasn't played a minute for us (and may never do so).

if we make a trade or larger FA signing this summer, i expect it will be for a center. but i'd still want to retain hayes, likely on a higher salary.

 

This dude deserves half of what he currently makes.

 

Lol

 

I hope Jackson got his sleep cause AD gonna try to beat the damn breaks off him tonight.

 

Man was I wrong. AD did anything but dominate this game. Loved the guy but seeing those stretches of disappearing from him brought back some painful 4th quarter let down memories.

Jaxson wasn't much of a factor though only playing 14 min and putting up 3pts, 5 boards and 2 steals with a -9 plus/minus rating. Oddly he pretty much matched Vandy's production (2pts, 5 bds, 2 steals, +/- of -9. Vandy had 1 assist and one more shot 4 than Hayes). I def expected better from Vandy who seems to not have much lift getting rejected at the rim at least twice by the mavs. But Jaxson brings exactly what JJ wants, energy, effort and finishing when he gets the chance (lobs mostly). Kid has confidence going into the late run of the season.

 

Hayes is a good roleplayer - nothing more nothing less. He should be part of a C platoon not the only playable one on your roster but I think it's pretty cool that the Lakers found a rotation center pretty cheap and internally.

 

AR15 was a "good roleplayer-nothing more nothing less" to fans too.

I'm not saying Hayes is this or that but he is playing the way JJ wants him to play and that is invaluable in my opinion. I mean AD is by far a better player than Hayes but in a prove it game put up 13pnts,11 boards, 6 ast and blk with a +/- of -10. They needed Super AD to take over the game but he was Meh AD or Moderate AD but not making 43 million a year. Compared to Hayes making 2.5 million a year.

I think we fans underestimate and devalue the guys who pull up and plays the way the team needs them to play. Is he a starter? Meh, I'm guessing that depends on what the team needs. Is he a star? no. Will he be a star? Probably not. Should he get more love for doing the role he is doing on this team? Absolutely, in my opinion.

 

Umm not sure who this is directed to but I hope that isn't supposed to reflect why my opinion on AR was or is.
I called AR ceiling a modern Ginobili (less hops, more 3 point shooting) and thought he should have been a starter in year 2. The receipts are there in the AR thread.

From my perspective a good roleplayer is someone who can get minutes for most teams but isn't someone whose necessarily a starter or can be played big minutes against all matchups. That pretty much how I feel about Hayes.

 

My response was more directed in general but It was spurred by your response because, as fans, we love to say a player is good or not good based on how they play in certain situations. I used AR because even the title for his thread as if we "still want to trade him?" Literal conversations in the last 3 pages of his thread is about trading the best #3 man in the league. My point was about how easy it is to not understand if these guys are more than a scrub because we don't see them doing things they aren't asked to do.

I personally love what Jaxson is doing in the role he is being asked to do. If he wants to be a starting level center he def needs to improve his game (like most of you guys have said). That being said, I do think the Lakers need another capable (even more than capable) Center on this squad next year but not one that demands touches. We need a defensive minded role player center who can get some points if needed.

 

That’s all many of us here have been asking for! A defensive minded C who can sometimes give you 10-12 points a night.

 

I feel vindicated for calling AD beta his whole Laker existence. He has flashes of Alpha, but is too easily thrown off his game. He’s not the 1A you need unless your 1B is a pure scorer.

he’s not a great “create your own basket” kind of scorer. We took him out of the game, and there was very little he could do to stop us.

not a single Mavs fan slept in peace tonight thinking about the package they got for Luka. Not a single one.

 

Yay for you.

… you were still over the top with it all even when he gave us almost 2 seasons of relative iron man big man attendance for games and with so many of those being astounding with the performances he gave. You do realize he’s likely not able to go all out again yet from that injury? Beta or not.

 

I admire your support for Robin, but I just can’t quite embrace the loyalty. He disappeared and deferred too much when it mattered most. He’s the anti-alpha.

 

Well I think we took that approach to the center position because AD was a max contract center. The Nuggets don't spend on centers to play behind Jokic. The Sixers don't spend on centers to play behind Embiid. The Heat don't spend on centers that play behind Bam. But this is just the "is AD a 4 or a 5" debate which has been hashed out plenty of times here.

I do think we'll be going for a starting center to play ahead of Hayes in the offseason, but I'm curious what type of center it will be. Will it just be a better version of Hayes, like Mark Williams or Claxton? Will it be a more stout, defensive-oriented guy like Kessler? Or will it be a floor-spacer like Turner (yeah we'll probably have that whole discussion again lol) or an old Lopez? I think JJ wants to play a true 5-out like the C Bags, but 5s that can credibly protect the rim and space the floor are really tough to acquire. There's a reason why Turner gets brought up year after year in trades, its because he's basically the only guy of that archetype that's been even somewhat available.