2024-25 Team Developments: Trades / Free Agents / News / Rumors / Ideas

ESPN going cheap


With as popular as his pod was, that's surprising.

I'm sure Amazon or NBC will make a play given they are now invested in the NBA.

 

yeah, we've been over that. i'm just not buying that we declined to sign him to that deal due to the extra year or whatever. i feel like we were chasing klay, and that was prioritized, so jonas secured the bag knowing he probably won't be in washington all year.

i'm certain we spoke to ainge, and i'm guessing the cost was too high. i'm actually not interested in williams, for several reasons. i was interested in sharpe, but again, that would have required a trade. and again, we did talk to the nets, almost certainly. i trust that we didn't turn down some no-brainer in any of these cases.

hell no on mcgee or rolo at this point. and i wouldn't be surprised if jaxson hayes was better than anyone else on this list this year (he was probably better than all but plumlee last year). had hayes been a FA this summer, and we signed him over theis or wiseman, i'm not sure folks would have been that upset.

i said via trade or FA, so Ja's health or the hypothetical that Edey is a star wouldn't factor into anything.

i'm not as sure about NO improving as you are. they now employ basically no size except zion, essentially trading their two big front court players (valanciunas and nance) for murray. i question whether zion at center for a full season is wise or likely to be successful.

i'm also not sure that dallas moving away from defense and towards more shooting around doncic is the right play. i thought they found their formula last year at the deadline and then pivoted away from it with the klay deal. i guess he's better than tim hardaway and josh green were for them, but just one more player who's a problem defensively on the perimeter for 30mpg is an issue. we know this very well.

i forgot SA. paul and barnes are the right additions for them to jump to playoff contention, assuming cp plays. they also had all the cap space and draft picks in the world to work with, and if our summer had been trading for paul and barnes, this place would be in revolt.

some teams also got worse (e.g., clips), and at least we didn't do that (e.g., russ trade).

how did rob not read it? the player options? they've always existed with the exact same risk. and they're being overblown tremendously, imo.

the giant extensions are slowing things down at the top, and the second apron is making some of the second-tier moves (BI, kuz, randle , jerami grant types) harder because those used to be salary dumps for draft picks to free spending teams, but the rules don't allow that anymore.

these things are probably good for parity (which was the goal) but bad for roster flexibility. hence you've got like 9 teams in the western conference basically on equal footing despite frantic attempts to get above the fray.

 

Maddest we’ve seen JSM …. since the Gump era?

 

Not only is he popular but he actually knows what he is talking about which is more then 95% of what is left on ESPN. Sad

 

Luxury tax 2024-25: How much is each NBA team projected to spend?
1.Phoenix Suns

2024-25 Payroll: $220.4 million

2024-25 Luxury Tax Payment: $188.49 million

2024-25 Combined Payroll and Luxury Tax Payment: $408.89 million

Minnesota Timberwolves
2024-25 Payroll: $205.56 million

2024-25 Luxury Tax Payment: $105.62 million

2024-25 Combined Payroll and Luxury Tax Payment: $311.18 million

The only team other than the Suns with more than a $300 million combined in salary and tax bills are the Wolves, who have also cemented themselves in place with a hugely expensive Big Three.

5 Los Angeles Lakers
.2024-25 Payroll: $188.19 million

2024-25 Luxury Tax Payment: $53.16 million

2024-25 Combined Payroll and Luxury Tax Payment: $241.35 million

The Lakers are also paying repeater rates, and the difference between their combined commitments and Milwaukee’s above speak to the punitive effects of the repeater rates. For a mere $5 million less in salary, they are projected to be spending more than $30 million less

 

10.GSW

2024-25 Payroll: $176.60 million

2024-25 Luxury Tax Payment: $14.61 million

2024-25 Combined Payroll and Luxury Tax Payment: $191.21 million

Over the last decade, the Warriors have blown all manner of NBA luxury tax records out of the water. By way of example – but not the only example – they paid $170,331,194 in luxury tax in the 2021/22 season alone, a single year payment by one team only that was nonetheless bigger than the cumulative amount every team paid in any prior season except in 2002/03. They pioneered paying nine figures a year when very few were paying even eight. And they dragged the rest of the top half of the league along with them.

Those days are over, however.

12.LA Clippers

2024-25 Payroll: $173.28 million

2024-25 Luxury Tax Payment: $6.16 million

2024-25 Combined Payroll and Luxury Tax Payment: $179.44 million

Having been taxpayers in each of the last three seasons – and paying more than $220 million purely in tax penalties the last two seasons, even before any salary payments – there is no reason for the Clippers to do so again.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/luxury-tax-2024-25-how-much-is-each-nba-team-projected-to-spend/

 

I haven’t enjoyed Lowe’s podcast quite as much the last couple of years as I used to. The quality of his guests have really declined, way too much Bobby Marks, Tim Bontemps and other ESPN guys. I hope he lands at The Ringer, I still really enjoy when he collaborates with Simmons. I really liked the Grantland stuff.

 

...nicely done there.

 

Yeah. I think Lowe lands on his feet very quickly.

 

Yet the incessant bashing and whining about cheap Jeanie needs to sell the team. We've stayed in the repeater tax, but not near deeply enough for that contingent.

 

Yeah, I think ESPN shows are a bit empty of depth and there's a pursuit of hype and drama that damages the quality of the discussions. Hoop Collective is also one I wasn't able to follow too much time because of that.
I really liked Lowe's questions to JJ, I think he's quite good in understanding basketball

 

That depends though. A no brainer to us isn't necessarily a no brainer to Rob. I'd give up a first for Kessler without hesitation. If Rob isn't there, I have a problem with his pick valuation and management. RW3 i'm not that high on, but I am looking at tanking teams who have gettable players and Blazers aren't keeping 3 Cs. Compared to a two way addition though, i'm VERY interested in him.

Problem with Hayes last summer is the same with him this summer and if we had an injured Wood on the roster, I'd have zero interest in Hayes as a FA. Redundant rag doll centers. All those I listed have mass and can hold up to another center better. I'll take any of them over Max Lewis' wasted roster spot and based on roster construction, over Reddish.

I'm not suggesting an every night, 18 mpg role for any of them. But you need viable depth and options. Injuries, foul trouble, fatigue... anything close to that creeps up and it's Bron as backup C. Just what that 40 year old body needs.

I mean, Rob's counting Vando and Gabe as additions...

Their wings have a lot of length though and they can really get after it defensively and that's before Murray who I think can be a culture shifter on that end. I think if they push pace, they can be really difficult on both ends. I think they're hoping if they keep it simple enough for Missi he can do Lively lite things for them at backup C. And if it doesn't work then BI is getting moved for the best big they can find.

I don't know if they're necessarily moving in the opposite direction of that but giving it more of a blend. Marshall and Dinwiddie can both defend, so can several of their existing role players. Lineup balance will be key for Kidd. A full year with Gafford and Washington will matter. I think the ask for Klay will be so small he's going to really thrive in the role with two of the best passers in the game setting him up for really easy looks. THJ in the playoffs was god awful.

They did get worse but I'm actuality more afraid of this version of them, especially when Kawhi sits. Depth, no expectations and nothing to lose. They've been successful in that position before. With Kawhi and PG, you knew the choke was imminent.

Because the front office is a 2 man show. We don't employ a capologist and can Rob really fit in the time to read 676 page CBA and still ride all the rides at Disney Land?

It's always existed but there's fewer paths to dumping them and tighter restraints keeping us at certain cap ceilings.

How is it overblown when that's what locked us in to the roster as it stands? You remember those automatic coupon dispensers they used to have in the grocery story? That was Rob giving out player options to minimum players who if they didn't have those options, would not be on a NBA roster heading in to this upcoming season. Maybe just let someone else get that guy next time, Rob.

My ongoing issue with Rob's roster builds is the margins for error, injuries or s*** happens is non existent. That's a Vegas gamble that you will lose almost every time. With injuries, we're 5 deep and then you hit questions, maybes and hopefullys.

Hopefully Gabe is back to playoff Heat Gabe (ha!).
Hopefully Max is ready for the leap he has to take for us. We haven't seen it (thanks Darv!) so who knows
Hopefully Vando and his feet can get healthy enough for him to help us (reoccurring feet issues for someone with his style of play is worrisome)
Hopefully Knecht can be passable on defense.
Hopefully JHS can be a NBA caliber player.

 

Kwame, MDA, Mike Brown and Pat Bev take that cake.

But yeah, I'm definitely quite irritated. Between the complete inaction to seeing AD and Bron be the two best players on Team USA and their reward is coming back to a team fighting to avoid the play-in. That's not OK in my book.

 

i just whine about it in response to people whining about roster quality. phx has a better roster because they're willing to spend more. minnesota is outspending us by a mile. we've made many moves that were purely cost-cutting over the past few years (e.g., letting caruso, beasley, and bamba walk) that limited our ability to make impactful trades like, say, the clippers have. we wouldn't be fussing about player options on vet min contracts if we had a couple more 10 million dollar salary slots to move around.

anyway, once lebron's gone, we'll be down where the clips and gs are, payroll-wise for a couple years.

 

you're borrowing trouble a la the bloggers here--you're assuming he turned down a deal for kessler and then being mad about it.

what was the path to williams (again, not interested, but curious)? for us to get a center in the 10 million range, we need that salary to trade. they taking gabe? vando? what do we have to add? is that worth it when the return might be on par with hayes and/or wood?

most we're discussing couldn't be had just by dumping lewis or reddish (both of whom i'd dump yesterday, and one of whom counted you as a huge fan in the not too distant past i might add). most that could aren't really bruisers. like robert williams isn't going to guard jokic, nor is daniel theis.

if i took these views regarding the lakers, i'd be called a shameless homer?

i'm asking for the evidence that rob/the lakers don't "know the cba". i've seen literally none in the whole time he's been in charge.

i really think they were the tax for signing guys that most people thought were worth more than the minimum. had we played hardball and they signed elsewhere, people would have been whining: "how come we didn't just offer the extra year? it's just a vet min slot!" again, zero fussing about this on this forum when those deals went down. if it was so foreseeable that we'd want out of all those contracts, you'd figure one person would have seen it.

it's what happens when you have two guys making 50+ million per.

btw, the C Bags were built on razor thin margins last year. denver also won a title the year before with like 5 total legit nba rotation players. nobody has a roster that can withstand injuries. those teams were a horford/holiday or kcp injury away from being ringless, too.

once lebron started really showing his age (and he has, and yes i saw the olympics...), we were going to be relegated. christian wood's player option isn't the reason we're a play-in team. the past couple of years when we've played sensible lineups (dlo/reaves/lebron/AD/rui or vando) we've won at a nice clip. we just have aging/brittle stars and apparently a very brittle supporting cast!

 

Great discussion. Don't agree with JSM but he's making his point with mostly sound arguments, so fair enough.
But really double down on what Abeer is writing. I'm reading JSM and thinking about a reply, just to scroll down and see Abeer say it
Great stuff by both!

 

Ehh. They’re okay. I guess.

 

Not exactly. At least not until I have more info, that's why I said "I want to know..." and "if." Judging on how Rob has valued the picks thus far, I have ideas but they're only that at this point. I'm not mad about those until it's a missed deal for a lesser package or something we could've easily offered. At the same time with the bad press Rob is getting for a hands-in- the-pockets off-season (Ham style), if he had made a good offer and the price was unrealistic, it would've behooved him to leak that unrealistic ask to the media so at the very least, it'd look like he was trying. Instead of the big empty promises and continuing to kick the can until Bron retires and we're in a retool.

I'd do Gabe, Lewis (if they want a "prospect") and a few 2nds. Gabe for his career only averages like 6 more games a year than RW. If you're only getting half a season from a player, please give me a big who's shown signs of really important front court defensive contributions with blocks and boards who also has bulk vs a small point guard who's had one really good playoff run and is milking that until the return shows what he's shown in the rest of his career. Also one is a position of need and the other is a guard behind DLO, AR, and Max... oh yeah, Bron also handles the rock and AD is going into hub mode. And we have this kid in JHS that people are trying to sell us on that he is good, we're now entering the second camp where he's getting rave reviews. If any of that translates, Gabe is expendable.

Still riding for Reddish but I value getting AD some sort of help over my support of a 3rd string SF. He also has a less realistic path to playing time with what's invested in our wings vs the pennies invested in what's currently considered "help" for AD.

Compared to what we have, those would be our bruisers and they absolutely would play against the big Cs. Like how Beas was the wing stopper for the Bucks last year. The best bad idea can still be an improvement. They have mass and either are or flirt with 250 lbs. In the playoffs, if that's all we added then sure we're probably back to Bron and Rui playing Joker but for the 82 no, one of those heavier pickups would get burn.

Either he lacks foresight, is bad at his job, or didn't understand the implications of the CBA and the landscape that would present itself as a result. You can pick which door you think he's hiding behind.

There was not a market for Cam or Hayes. Wood there was a little competition, but we would've been better off missing out on that "prize." Giving end of the roster players that much power and control over your off season is beyond foolish.

No fan fussed or foresaw the issue because no one would fathom that would be why we couldn't add one single NBA player to the roster this off-season. Those Vegas odds would be along the lines of Woj retiring two weeks before pre-season. Roster improvement is the job. Find a way. Full stop. We're hoping for strictly internal improvement on a worse roster with older franchise players.

Helps when you have the best player in basketball and he's in his 20s. Bron did that time and time again.

C Bags, age matters too. White just turned 30. Zingis (even if some of his parts are 10 years older), Tatum and Brown are in their 20s. I was surprised the ductape on Horford held up. When you're thin or have minimal room for mistakes BUT have father time in your side, you can shoulder the load or the mad dash to get out of a hole. When Father Time is at an arms reach, you have to better compensate.

You're right. One min locked up roster spot on an injured big isn't the difference between 5th and 10th. BUT the margins can be. Winning on the margins is a must in the new CBA and when the entire West is separated by a handful of games. I have seen nothing from Rob to suggest he knows how to win the margin battle against his peers.

 

ESPN has become all about shock value and hot takes. nothing of actual value anymore

not even worth watching these days