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If found guilty, kick him out for LIFE, please. Crooked d******.

 

i mean, this really isn't surprising at all considering the way sports betting is constantly shoved in our faces left and right and with how easily accessible it is now. i'm 100% certain porter isn't the only NBA player guilty of this. he was just reckless about it and got caught

he'd be banned from the league for life at the very least if he's involved in any wrongdoing

 

Stories about possible cheating in the NBA are in this thread, above, and I'm not sure if this is where I post my little diatribe, but here goes. Mods? If there's a better place, let me know and I'll move it there. Seems like it fits the "news/rumors/ideas" part of this thread's title.

J.B. Bickerstaff told reporters last week that he'd been threatened by gamblers. They called his house, said they knew stuff about his kids, etc.

I find it really sad and maddening. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's privately wondered how much of this I'd take before I'm OUT: if it begins to look fixed, I'm OUT. I love the NBA. Have since Hector was a pup. But if they allow this to get out of hand, I'm out. I've got all kinds of other things to do with my time. I'm really good at never being bored. I want the NBA in my life. I do not "need" it in my life. I don't want to feel taken in by a fix. Adam Silver? Are you listening?

The Q is difficult, as I suspect we all have our own limits to this crap. The Donaghy stuff was bad enough for me. Eric Lewis, that twit ref who quit last year when he found the NBA was investigating him - that j****** whose family were hardcore C-Bags fans? - and he's black!? That was also making me think.

But yea, there's so much money involved now, and gambling can be an insane addiction for some guys. Integrity is everything to me. If you give me the sense the integrity of the game is in doubt, I may as well watch kayfabe wrestling. Have I wondered if I'm a dupe? Yea, it worries me. Especially after I read Dan Moldea's book on organized crime and the NFL (and I haven't followed the NFL since around 1990), and Brian Tuohy's books The Fix Is In: Showbiz Manipulations of the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL and NASCAR and Tuohy's Larceny Games: Sports Gambling, Game Fixing and the FBI. Point-shaving in the NBA was admitted in 1954. Supposedly it's over, but any one of us can see how this probably isn't 100% true today, sadly...Part of the reason players, coaches and refs are paid so well is so they won't be tempted. How can even this be foolproof?

Has anyone here ever read Frederick Exley's book A Fan's Notes? Classic. Being a toxic sports fan, betting, alcoholism, etc. The best thing I've seen on a movie screen that gave me a similar vibe was Big Fan (2009 Robert Siegel), in which Patton Oswalt plays a hardcore NY Giants fan, but it's not really about gambling yet does cover the kind of guy who has allowed his fandom to become truly toxic. Good cautionary tale there. Hey: we may be hardcore diehard Laker fans, but it's up to each of us to also have "a life," as we used to say as kids: Get a Life! It's funny, but true: cultivate something in your life that you love to do, is creative, and doesn't cost a bunch of money to do. I hope everyone reading this - all two of you - have your thang goin' on. You have a life outside being a sports fan.

The NBA overseeing calls and announcing that stuff was missed in a game, it's transparent, etc: okay. The Lakers shoot more FTs than anyone else for solid basketball reasons: AD and Lebron are unstoppable in the paint. You HAVE to foul them. And the Lakers' game is all about owning the paint; we aren't a 3-point team, etc. And as a Laker fan, I pay attention to "late" whistles, and use my DVR and watch plays over and over - esp. if the broadcast won't replay a sequence. I know it's a horrible thing to have to think about. Maybe I'm an idiot for believing games are on the up and up. Maybe I'm a "mark." Hey, it's possible. Not one of us hardcore Laker fanatics wants to think about this - as we had to when crooked POS Eric Lewis didn't call that last second foul on Lebron in the C-Bags game, etc. To confront a life without the NBA, without the Lakers because the game had become too crooked, its integrity too soiled by the Mob or some other gawdawful entity...it's really a depressing thing, is it not?

Finally: I realize there's nothing I can do about this. It's out of my hands. Oh, well, maybe there's one thing I can do and indeed I do not bet on games. Any of them. I don't like that world of sports betting. If you, fellow Laker fan, do bet, that's okay. Just don't let it make you into a d*** about the games. My dad bet on games when I was a kid. I found it ugly then. Still do. He had his bookies. If you and a friend, just between you, bet on, say, Lakers @ Bucks tomorrow, and Lebron's ankle is bad enough he's listed as OUT and you take the Lakers and 5 points or whatever the hell it is, for $20 or a case of beer or whatever: it's just between you and friend: no harm, no foul. But once you're in the organized system, you might be contributing to the problem. Just a thought.

 

i don't feel taken in because i don't care as much as many. when i was younger, i did. for me, the shameless fix of the 2006 finals helped me take things less seriously. then as i got older, had kids, etc., the nba just became a diversion for me instead of a passion/interest/hobby/whatever. i've always suspected that some players and refs were crooked, and i knew david stern had his hand on the scales all the time. i just figured probably 90% of the games i watched weren't really influenced by any of it--or if they were, i couldn't notice it in a way that mattered.

anyway, jontay is mpj's brother, right? what does he want more money for? is his brother not taking care of his family or something?

 

He's a total piece of s***!

-- Pete Rose (Probably)

 

I’m with abeer on this one. Ever since the Donaghy scandal, my eyes were open to the realization that many of these games could be fixed, or at least skewed to a particular outcome.
It’s just entertainment for me now in this ever increasing dark world we live in.

 

Sports involves humans, anything involving humans,will come with some bias involved. When it comes to basketball, the refs have more power, to be able to "fix" a game, they are the ones that enforce the rules, or not. Still..it's would be extremely hard, for one single ref, to control the outcome of a game.
Technically, a single ref could make a call, or not, but a whole lot had to happen first, in order for them to be in that position.

 

i don't think it happens often, but i disagree that it's hard. it could be a simple as interpreting a rule in such a way that takes away a star's advantage. refs routinely flip flopped on shaq when he played, which was frustrating for him and for fans of both his team and opposing teams, i'm sure. but those fairly minor fluctuations could really impact a game. in the 2006 finals, the refs just decided that after game 2 (when miami was down 2-0 and likely to be swept), defenders could not approach dwyane wade. period. and that was that. people went along with it because i think the mavs (cuban, really) weren't popular and wade was, but it was absolute horse**** unfolding in real time.

i actually think the scott foster/cp3 thing is real and impactful, and it's a huge problem for the league. people don't fuss about it because...chris paul...but it, too, is horse****.

anyway, again, i don't think this happens all day long in all games or whatever. i just think you're underestimating how easy it can be to influence outcomes with a few choices here and there.

 

When you decide as a league that you’re only going to enforce some of the rules in your rule book and instruct your referee’s to do so you are corrupt by definition.

 

It's a fine line between the "superstar " calls, and home team advantage too tho. I mean players have never been treated equally, it's a star's league, folks aren't paying top dollar, to see the Kareem, Shaq, Jordan etc foul out of games frequently. You couldn't breath on MJ, once he became the face of the league , great as he was.

If Lebron was getting those type of calls today, honestly, I don't think a lot of Lakers fans would be complaining.

Why does Luka, Steph or Tatum, get more differential treatment from the refs, than Lebron? IMO that is.

 

Thank-you, abeer3, Slick2021, and FrontOfJersey22, for weighing in on this dark topic. abeer: 90% of the games are clean? That, to me, is an awfully low (high?) number, but maybe I need to wake up. In other words, on a day with a full slate of games, at least one is tainted? Maybe you're right.

The methods that monitor the refs - the league - and the players: statistical anomalies in wagers?, both seem to have their weaknesses and strengths. I'd like to see tougher crackdowns on both sides, but then again: the league would be drawing attention to itself as a "charade" or "crooked" or other ideas that might catch the public mind. I think: eff it: you have to call this stuff out when it appears to be so blatantly obvious.

Thanks for bringing up 2006 Finals. Yea...

MP Jr ducks chance to defend brother. Probably on advice of private counsel. And yea, you'd think there was enough $$$ there, but who knows what goes on within families?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's a bit haunted by the possibilities of the Dark Side to infiltrate our game (it is ours: the money is underwritten by the fans and the belief it's "clean" entertainment) and contaminate everything.

By acknowledging all this, we're being adults. People who are worldly and not naive. But I for one am aware that I pretty much jettison all that, mentally, at tip-off. I'm still watching for bad calls, but a player who's doggin' it somehow? I don't trust my abilities there: a guy just looks "off". Maybe he's having a bad night. So the statistical anomalies with betting on them along with their performance: I have to trust those who monitor that stuff.

abeer and FrontOfJersey22 - can I call ya "Front"? - it seems like you watch the games somewhat ironically, like the background to your participation as a fan is slightly colored by cheating. Would you say that's a fair assessment? You might be the Realist here. I honestly don't know how to negotiate all this, and suspect some part of me - the Kid? - gravitates toward a relative obliviousness. I also suspect it's very difficult for any of us to say just when we'd have to say "I'm out." To entertain strong suspicions of crookedness - and abeer's 2006 Finals and Wade's treatment is indeed glaring - and to continue to watch must give another dimension to our participation as fans, because we'd then keep a running tally of who was suspect, when, why, etc. With very few exceptions - refs like Donaghy and Lewis - I must be naive. I wonder how those of us who suspect more cheating than I seem to suspect...deal with the cognitive dissonance.

With Shohei Ohtani: my intuition tells me his story is truthful: he didn't know his pal was using his account. If it turns out Ohtani was all in on the betting, engaging in it himself and right now lying: biggest sports scandal since the Black Sox?

Okay: I think this is all I want to say on this dread Topic for now, as it is indeed the Dark Aspect and I can get to feeling physically lousy if I dwell on this too much.

 

I always wonder about that. Clearly, we are not privy to the subtle personal dynamics between refs and players on the court, year after year. Luka seems to chirp as much as Lebron, Tatum and Steph a bit less. I wonder about the style of complaining and certain referees and their personalities. I don't know. I've watched Lebron for so long my opinion is this: he is livid when he's fouled and doesn't get the call. BUT: I've seen him posture and gesture and scream when the replay shows he obviously fouled a guy. What I think happens is some guys foul and genuinely think they didn't. And Lebron's one. I really do think some players can mentally tune in to their hand getting "all ball" while not noticing their hip also caught a guy, throwing off his shot. Stuff like that. Proprioception: the perception of where your body is in space. We all "tune in" to certain perceptions and "tune out" others, and it seems likely we're not all the same. But who knows.

Then again, don't most players engage in some sense of "working the refs"?

 

so then was 2002 "fixed" for the lakers like a lot of non-lakers fans continue to bring up because of donaghy's claims?

 

As if the Nets had the slightest chance of beating us, no matter what. They were completely overmatched and the last thing we needed was a crooked ref in our pocket.

 

you mean game 6? i could see an argument that it was officiated in our favor. i believe the game before went the opposite way (we got jobbed and should have won), though, iirc. whether it was a directive from someone...i'm largely dubious.

it's not ironic. i just can't attach my emotions to it to the extent that i used to. again, only a tiny bit of that is the eric lewises of the world. it's mostly just i got older and have more stuff to focus on. i mostly watch the game because i like the game, and nba basketball is the best product, imo.

and i don't think it's wwf fixed, as some imply. i just think there are preferred outcomes on occasion--by refs, mostly, and sometimes maybe those refs think they're doing the right thing and not being biased or "fixing" anything.

btw, i'm not even sure the 2006 finals was a directive (though stern HATED cuban, and stern, of all people, was not at all above meddling). i think the officials got on board with the idea that the aggressor gets the benefit, then decided miami was the only aggressor (when dallas tried to play with equal force, whistles). regardless of why, it was clearly biased and kind of made the outcome a joke.

 

Ahh...yea: in the sense we are all biased in judgement in practically all things, and much of it is unconscious: this is underrated. Or rather: I understated this as a possible confounding factor in the idea that some games aren't 100% legit: that's probably the biggest factor: unconscious bias, unpaid, no Mob involved. I think you're right, abeer. I agree.

And I always appreciate your thoughtful, articulate mind and what you bring here at lakersball.com.

 

talking about the western conference finals vs the kings

yeah, game 5 was the game where prime shaq went to the FT line one time

 

On the flipside, I can't remember the last time, that Lebron fouled out of a game. So I'm sure, that he probably feels like, he gets away with his fair share, more often than not.

That being said, I was like Abeer in my youth, a purist, I didn't like the preferential treatment stuff, even with my Lakers being favored. I thought that stuff cheapen the game a bit.

Now as I've gotten older, I've become more of a pragmatic hypocrite, on the subject. Yeah..it's not fair, but it is what it is. Therefore my team, should be taking every single advantage available.

Lebron is the oldest player in the League, and he's still one of the top draws in the League too. Cash in on some of that more, get the tech, get tossed every once in awhile. That forces the issue, because at the end of the day, the superstars are infinitely more valuable to the League, than some individual referee.

It's not about Lebron per se, in that it would boost his stats or something. It gives my Lakers an added advantage. I'm willing to accept that advantage a lot more now.

 

Ahh...right: that series vs. Skankramento, Dog Crispy and his wife, Bibby, Peja, et.al: that was the Finals. I thought Game 6 the refs kinda made up for doing a job on us in Game 5. Certainly the SAC fans were/are conspiratorial about all that. Gawd, seems like a couple lifetimes ago. And I was much more naive about all this than I am now. I definitely remember where I was when Horry hit that tap-back 3-pointer in Game 4, though. I was the kinda shot that gets you laid if you're with the right crowd. And I was.

 

Do it Rob







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