2022-23 Team Developments: News / Trades / Free Agents / Rumors

Somtimes stand-ins steal the show.

 

Where is this 40 years old LeBron talk coming from just asking? This is 2nd post tonight I’ve read that. Yes he’s up there but doesn’t even turn 38 until Dec 30 this year.

 

Top 3 - 5 will take a lot of things to fall our way.

I don’t agree that thinking the team will struggle is a slight to AD and LeBron.

supporting casts matters especially for teams that are trying to compete for titles. This isn’t high school or college where one or two guys can carry a team to glory.

In our case, deficiencies on shooting and defense will directly impact how well our Big Two can operate on both ends of the floor. Especially since both can get frustrated and start mailing it in when they feel like the rest of the team isn’t holding up their end. I believe it was AD that alluded to this in comments about role players and energy.

I think it’s also evident in their body language on the court as AD and LeBron aren’t good at hiding their frustration.

so yeah, I don’t think the current talking point is accurate. Honestly most of it is what I mean when I say that overly positive comments that are basically just sticking heads in the sand and ignoring fundamental aspects of NBA basketball (I’ll add height mattering to this part of the rant) are just as bad as doom and gloom all the time. Just doesn’t lead to good conversation because the arguments don’t seem to be in good faith.

 

no. when has it EVER cost draft capital to move an expiring contract? show me the precedent. i hate these articles. this one's basically all emotion, and the argument against doesn't spell out that we are out of the running for basically any substantial trade for the next two to three years. i also can't stress enough that hield is currently a negative asset. indy has been trying to move him but can't get anything for him (and are probably being asked to either take on bad salary or give up a pick of their own).

another thing that i think was kind of buried in the shams piece was that we were mulling making the offer of 2 picks--not that indy would definitely take it. it's never formally been offered. and it sounds like they've been lucy with the football with us for months. who knows if we show up with russ and 2 unprotected firsts only to have indy say....and reaves and christie.

 

still don't understand everyone saying we're short. our guards are small. our bigs are large. lebron is probably the biggest starting sf in the league and AD is one of the biggest starting pfs. acting like we're a band of dwarves makes no sense, but it's a repeated talking point. most teams' sgs aren't big. most teams go small with their second units. lots of teams have had success playing two small guards, including our most recent title team. i just don't think this is an issue. shooting, fine (also was an issue on our title team).

re: other things:

there are two threads of argument being made by the same group that are not compatible, imo. the first is that lebron is old and AD isn't a top 15 player. alongside that, we have "we must trade everything to get myles turner". and that's not an exaggeration. we'd be trading everything we have to trade for him. if you think lebron and AD aren't good enough, then turner definitely isn't the thing that gets us over the top (don't get me started on perception vs. reality of hield). if you think lebron and AD are injury prone, let me introduce you to myles turner.

and others have also made the point, but it keeps getting ignored, so i'll repeat it: moving both picks means we control no picks until 2031. none. yes, we'll have some, but we will have zero to trade. it's not even about waiting for a star trade in the next two years. it's about it being at all possible for the next 7-8 years! trust me, our opponents WANT us to do this so the next AD can't happen even if there is a next AD (prime star who wants to come here (luka)).

 

Hope he does. He can increase his trade value.

Or whatever. Don't really care if he's here the season and flames out.

Or we make a move and and contend.

I'm up for anything.

 

Buha:

“To my knowledge and the knowledge of [myself, Amick and Charania] as a group, it was at the one-yard line internally. There was no formal request or reach out to the Pacers... There were several internal meetings about this at one point... There were several hours there where we were hearing that it was essentially agreed upon internally that ‘we are going to propose this to Indiana. And all summer, in all of our iterations of trade talks with Indiana, their one ask has been we want both picks.’ And even if it was Myles by himself or Buddy, it always came back to they want two picks for any Russ trade.

“So the Lakers, with that knowledge, were having that kind of internal struggle of ‘is it worth going all in for this deal? Does it elevate us enough?’ And there was some split between members of the key decision makers of ‘yes it’s worth it,’ and ‘no it’s not,’ but I think temporarily they came to a consensus of ‘yes’ and that is when there was a point during the weekend where I thought it was a formality that this was going to happen, but ultimately there was some pushback at the one-yard line, they decided that there was not a consensus, and it was not time to make that move.

“(But) there was definitely a point during the weekend when from what we were hearing it sounded like a done deal that they were going to make the offer. Obviously it was contingent on Indiana to accept the offer, but they had been telling the Lakers all summer that they were going to need two picks, and if the Lakers made that offer, I think they were confident that Indiana would have accepted it.”

“As of now, their stance is ‘we want to see what Russ looks like, we want to see if we can make it work.’ And if it can’t, there’s always potentially the Indiana deal, but there’s also if a team like Chicago gets off to a rough start because of this Lonzo situation, is a DeMar DeRozan available? Is a Zach LaVine available? Is there another team that underachieves out the gate and 20, 25 games in already looks like they’re going to be a lottery team and maybe a disgruntled star becomes available? So I think the Lakers are looking more at ‘can we get a bigger chip, and can we get a better player than a Myles Turner or a Buddy Hield?’ Because I think they think that package will still be there most likely if they are willing to put the two picks on the table.”

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com...buddy-hield-myles-turner-lakers-pacers-report

 

yeah, i don't know if that specific deal will or won't be there, but others might be. worst case, we just have a lot of flexibility next year. it's not great, but the worst case if we move the picks is much, much worse.

 

This is the NBA, these are the best basketball players in the world. You can't play 2 on 5 in basketball period, let alone at this level. The stars are the driving force in winning in this game. The role players are important, but it's the star's presence that allow them to be successful. It's not the other way around. We don't have a ring without Kareem and Magic, or Shaq and Kobe, Kobe and Pau, or LeBron and AD. This doesn't mean that the role players were irrelevant, but they wouldn't be relevant without the stars. With our current team LeBron and AD have played in 27 and 21 games together over the last two seasons. That is the problem, it's not shooting, spacing, imbalanced roster, poor defense etc. If your best players are on the court, it improves all those things. You build your roster around your talent, we have two unique talents, this gives us the flexibility to construct a roster in different ways. We won a chip with a certain group of players around the big two, IMO that worked, but it wasn't some kind of blueprint that we need to follow. We shot poorly from 3 on that team 21st place in the League. However the book is that we have to surround these guys with " shooters". We played great D, we played great D in the following season. That alone wasn't the key to winning a chip. It was James and Davis playing at a MVP caliber level as a duo, that is what elevated their teammates games.

We haven't had them together in two seasons in a row for the bulk of the season. I don’t expect that to be the case this season. If it is, all is lost period. I'm not worried about needing guys that shot a certain percentage from 3 before they came here, they have shown the ability to hit an open 3 in thier careers, they will get plenty here. I don't think everyone has to be considered lockdown defenders either, they need to play their roles in the scheme as defined by their HC. I think we have the ingredients to be successful, as long as the main guys do their thing. I don't think that James and Davis have slipped down to just being good players or more importantly, a good duo. We will find out this season. Top 3 in the West!!

 

Sigh Buha.

Ok..it was an internal discussion that got to the 1 yard line. So says his "sources," fine. Indiana wanting 2 picks for either Hield or Turner? They have to be the most irrational delusional FO of all time. Or they simply didn't want to make a trade with the Lakers at all from the jump . I guess Demarr is now the media's current favorite to be the next object of the Lakers trade desires. Zach Lavine, he's a Klutch client, gotta throw him in there too I guess. It that doesn't pan out, I assume Ben Simmons is the next one on the wish list if things go left in Brooklyn. Hey, he's Klutch too. We'll see, I don't think any of these guys have any real insight into what we are thinking. It's all a bunch of speculation, their speculation.

 

Very well said on every point.

- we aren’t small
- Myles Turner is injury prone
- If Lebron and AD aren’t good enough to win then injury prone Turner and no defence Hield won’t change that
- and the biggest point of all, we lose all ability to make large trades until the 2030s… that’s terrible management

 

What is terrible was trading for WB.

 

I see things in a similar way. Basketball is a unique team sport where one player can see a huge amount of time on ball both offensively and defensively and impact the game to an insane degree.

There’s a reason why the best stars or combination of stars usually wins. It’s because of the impact single players can have on the game.

Compare that to soccer where someone like Messi only has 5 minutes on ball during a match and hardly defends. He can barely impact the game compared to Lebron James.

So when your stars aren’t around, you’re going to be lousy. Full stop, period.

This doesn’t mean the supporting cast doesn’t matter, but they’re the remaining 25% of the puzzle and you can build the team out in multiple ways.

 

It’s a fair point. We can’t go back and change it… either he’ll play well and see out the year, or be traded/expire. Either way this is the last season and we can move on.

 

yeah, people refer to no trading westbrook as a sunk cost effect, when imo, it's trading MORE stuff to get rid of westbrook that is a classic sunk cost effect.

 

It’s the biggest case of sunk cost fallacy. We made a bad trade, so we then go off and do another bad trade for Hield and Turner.

You know what the worst case is, Hield is rubbish and we let him expire when the time comes and Turner doesn’t resign with us because someone offers him near max and we don’t.

Then you basically traded Caruso, Kuzma, Trez, KCP and all your remaining firsts for nothing. That’s just a terrible way to run a franchise.

There are only two options for trading those picks: either you win the trade and get something that turns you into a real contender or you stay patient and protect your assets. All this talk about two picks for average players is silly.

Now if you can trade Russ as an expiring to get something without picks, that’s interesting and should be explored if he doesn’t play well in the first few months.

 

Nothing of quality is coming back without any picks attached in a potential WB deal. That's just silly.

Almost as silly as saying we'll be a top 3 team.

And Indiana will be happily tanking this year for the 7-4 phenom slated to be the best prospect since LBJ.

Let's go! Lower that asking price!

 

Lol..you've obviously determined that somehow Westbrook is more important than Lebron or AD. You will learn the folly of that line of thinking this season pal!

 

The only thing I've learned is about your.
infatuation with WB.

LBJ and AD will carry is to a 6th seed as currently constructed if we're fortunate.

Weeeeeeeeeeee

 

Nope..I'm infatuated with James and Davis..this should be blatantly obvious by now. It's been that way ever since I showed up on this forum.

Russ is a sideshow, third wheel, I've never considered him to be on either of those guy's level. I do find it amusing that so many people seem to be obsessed with the guy, but as you posted, Lebron and AD will only carry us to the 6th seed!

To me this just exposes the real deal...most of you guys think Lebron and AD are no longer an elite duo. If you did, there wouldn't be 90 thousand post about Russell Westbrook.

Now somehow the Russ trade robbed AD and Lebron of those special guys they needed to be able to win! Nope they made those guys special.

Or Well..Westbrook is soo bad, he cancels out a healthy Lebron and AD. More total nonsense.
Maybe you just have a Westbrook problem for some reason IDK.

We ran through the West, dropping 1 game a series less than 2 years ago, shouldn't have lost 2 games to Miami IMO. It wasn't Vogel and the role players bro.