2022-23 Team Developments: News / Trades / Free Agents / Rumors

Agreed!

 

I have mixed feelings. Truth is, almost every single under developed young player we have had, has gone on to show what we wished they would have shown here. But, I start to wonder if we just aren't very good at developing young players. Not sure Vogel is good at that, not sure Lebron is the kind of vet who helps them develop.

Thing is, we have had a few guys step up or step into solid role playing positions and produce. Certainly Melo and Monk have shown more positively than THT has. The opportunity for him to score 10 ppg and do other things has been there for him the whole season. He has not really found a way to fit in and be a positive contributor as much as we would have liked him to. He still has the upside and I still think if he ends out on the right team, he will produce much as other Lakers players have. Guys like Randle, Ingram, Ball and Kuzma are all producing elsewhere. 5 years from now, we will be wishing that we had some of those guys back, but I doubt any of them would even want to come back. I hate to see a guy like THT move on and have the success, but not with us.

Then I start to think that this is just the way it is going to be for the Lakers. A team of mercenaries. We get the disgruntled superstars who want to play in the big lights for the big money. Come here and produce or go home. Just the way it is. Look at our teams through the ages. We drafted West, got Goodrich in a territorial rights pick and had to trade for Hairston and Wilt. Heck we lost Gail in the expansion draft and then traded to get him back. So the final piece to that team was trading for Wilt. Total mercenary. We did develop a few guys from this era, McMillin and Gail for sure. West was marquee.

Then, even though we drafted Magic and Worthy, we traded for Kareem, Scott, Wilkes, Thompson, etc. Mercenary mode. We developed a few guys from this era, besides Magic and Worthy. Scott, even though we traded, came as a rookie, Green was our pick. Cooper was another.

Traded for Kobe who threatened to stay in Europe, traded for Shaq, Fox, etc. Only guy, besides Kobe, I can think of who we drafted and developed was Fisher. This team was a vet laden team, Coach Jackson hated young players, hardly played them. That guy almost traded Kobe. Most mercenary team we have had to date.

Brings us to today, another mercenary team. Davis, Lebron, Monk, Bradley, Ellington, Rondo, etc etc. Nothing but mercenaries chasing rings. THT and Reaves are the only homegrowns and I bet THT will get traded. Windows now, if he ain't stepping into it while embracing it, he will be missing it. We have no time, we have spent millions upon millions to win it now. The ONLY reason we can wait is when you are on a rookie contract and the cannot replace you for less. Reaves is safe for a couple of years, but THT is not safe anymore. He got his money, now he has to prove it or lose it.

The problem for these young guys is they may not be getting put in the best situation to succeed. But if they want to be here, they have to force the issue, will it into existence. Kobe did, against some odds. Shaq hated on him, so did Jackson. He took them on and won. Got to hand it to Kobe, most guys would have wilted under that pressure.

I think we have to see THT step up now, double digit points and play some D. Earn it!!! Make it happen. The world is your oyster, Skin that smoke wagon and see what happens!

 

I don’t think so, he has been playing very well for them. He is developing into an elite 3&D player. They’re calling for him to be an all star.

 

that's a pretty bizarre claim from them. he still grades out as a below-par defender in most metrics i've seen, and he's a 37% three point shooter in the way that avery bradley's a 40% three point shooter (they're pretty much all open catch and shoot opportunities). kuz (who we HAD to get rid of because he couldn't shoot) was a 37% three point shooter last year.

but maybe they don't want to move him so as not to disrupt chemistry, but they're paying 30 million per year for a guy who's probably nothing more than harrison barnes (whom everyone thinks is overpaid at 2/3 the cost). grant could slide in and do most of wiggins does at a lower cost with more defensive versatility. i doubt they'd miss the midrange scoring ability, tbh.

 

Not sure where you’re getting the 37%. He is 43.5% for the season from 3. Over the last 15 games he is shooting 53.5% on 6 attempts. He is scoring 20 efficient points a game and defending the best player on the other team. And GSW are the best rated defence in the league. I assume you probably don’t watch them much? But Wiggins is having a break out year.

 

not sure where i got it. he is indeed shooting (an incredibly anomalous) 43% for 32 games of this year. one could believe that after 7 years in the league averaging 30+mpg that he's breaking out, or maybe that he's having a good shooting spell, the likes of which aren't uncommon.

he's become a credible team defender, but i think it's quite an overstatement to say he's established himself as an elite individual defender. he ranks 108th in def rtg (which isn't bad) and when you filter that for at least 20mpg, he's higher. but the problem is that he's behind most of his teammates (iggy is #1 on this list, poole, curry, and lee all appear ahead, and green just behind). it's obviously an imperfect stat and clearly captures team defense maybe moreso than individual contributions. that said, it's quite possible he's just one of many guys playing well together.

the argument that he's individually slowing down the other team's top option might translate into say, players who take shots against him shooting substantially worse than they normally do, but that's not the case. though, again, it is for some teammates.

i think his breakout is more of a fun story than a reality. he's found a home in gs as a third scorer who's no longer a terrible defender. people are celebrating because not long ago he was an billed (and is paid) as a top-notch second scorer/allstar, two-way player. claiming it to be so doesn't make it so.



anyway, no, i don't watch gs games that much. but i've watched him in gs and he looks like a guy who finally found the right role. but he looks like neither a stopper nor an allstar.

 

Andrew Wiggins is going to be an all star this year. He's been an excellent defender on top of his breakout offensive year. I would guess Curry and Draymond make it as well.

 

curry
green
paul
booker
donovan mitchell
rudy gobert
ja morant
nikola jokic
paul george
lebron james
anthony davis
KAT
luka
SGA
ingram
lillard

which two guys go in favor of wiggins? if good teams get a third guy, why wouldn't ayton get it over wiggins?

 

He probably makes it over PG, AD, SGA, Lillard and Ingram.

He is playing really well and defending great. His individual def rating takes a hit defending the best player on the other team playing 1-3. His differential should be compared to other starters and not backup defenders, with that in mind he isn’t far off Green. Who is having a DPOY impact.

 

yeah, disagree. AD's worst professional season is better than wiggins's best, and i feel like you're weirdly digging in here?

you think if you switch wiggins and george or wiggins and lillard, their teams are better off? hell, even ingram. we've seen what wiggins does in ingram's position--even worse.

SGA's the only argument, i grant, and he won't sniff the game. and he's better than wiggins.

 

I’m not arguing that Wiggins is better than any of those players. I just feel he is more deserving of an All Star appearance. Here is my reasoning:

- PG and AD are both gonna miss half the season up to the point of the All Star game. So unless you vote them in on popularity, health dictates they shouldn’t be there.

- Lillard has had an atrocious start to the year. One can make a case that he is playing as poorly as Russ.

- Ingram likewise has had a pretty bad start. And all 3 of Lillard, Ingram and SGA’s teams are in the dumps.

Because they normally reward winning teams with multiple all stars (ATL’s 4 with Kyle Korver as an example), I absolutely expect Wiggins to make it.

My other point was I just don’t think you’ve watched Wiggins quite enough. He has a career low in mid range attempts and a career high in 3pts. He basically doesn’t dribble much anymore just catches and shoots and his TS% is almost 60%. Defensively he has been really really good.

Its not a surprise GSW is this good, Wiggins is playing to a similar level like Klay did before the injuries. And I think it’s just fair to give him props for it.

 

Blazers tank and firesale comin right up

https://www.blazersedge.com/2022/1/...ups-quote-abdomen-rest-portland-trail-blazers

 

CJ and filler for Russ!!!

 

fair enough. i'd view it as a kyle korver type selection, though. which isn't high praise. as you said, he's playing a very specific role and doesn't fit any definition of "all star" other than a potentially nominal one. i also feel like every time the coaches reward winning teams' role players with all star berths, it looks silly. but i guess that's just my opinion.

anyway, this started with my assertion that gs could trade wiggins for grant. i said i doubted it for chemistry disruption reasons, and i stand by that as the main reason. two years ago, no one would have guessed you'd get wiggins to stop taking dumb shots and start playing passable defense (again, no statistical evidence he's become a great defender). we know that grant has thrived in a similar role to wiggins's in the past, and i'm pretty sure that if this trade had been proposed last summer, gs would have jumped on it.

edit: relatedly, there's a long piece on him out today.

this was from a scout:

"You can't force him to be the next Jordan, the next Kobe. Maybe he's just not wired that way," the scout says. "There are talents and geniuses -- maybe he's just a talent. He can't be your first guy. He can't be your second guy. He can't be your third guy. Maybe he's your fourth guy; that's pretty good."

this was interesting (and accurate from their management):

"The thing that people don't see in athletes is, just like us, they want to enjoy going to work," says Warriors general manager Bob Myers said of Wiggins. "They want to enjoy who they work with. And the NBA is tough. The idea with him was putting him around some teammates that can bolster him."

overall, it sort of highlights both of our perspectives.

 

This writer forgot CP3 but even with his inclusion I think Wiggins finds himself representing the Warriors in Cleveland

 

lol, the guy left off cp3, doncic, and gobert. further, his tone clearly indicates he has some axe to grind about this, hence the arbitrary stats cutoffs, etc.

and paul george has played in 26 games this year (lebron's played in 27, as has AD) and has been clearly better than wiggins.

you reposted my list:

we all (including the gs homer who wrote the piece) agree that these guys are locks:

curry
green
booker
donovan mitchell
ja morant
nikola jokic
lebron james
KAT

homer forgot these two locks:
luka (how do you forget luka freaking doncic)
paul (and last year's actual mvp)

he also forgot gobert, who's a huge part of utah being a perennial top-4 team, even if he's a liability in some playoff matchups. there is zero question he's a better, more valuable player than wiggins.

so to put wiggins on, you have ding these two obviously superior players for not enough games played (which isn't officially a thing):
anthony davis
paul george

i can't really accept arguments that wiggins is better than those 13 guys by any useful metric. and only 12 make the roster.

i suppose it's possible someone isn't available for the game (like AD, for example).

 

PG has a torn elbow ligament so he probably won’t be back till end of February. I imagine both him and AD get penalised for their injuries for not playing enough games.

 

ok, then i write a similarly biased piece about ayton's rightful place as the 12th man.

anyway, as we've been over, the point was whether wiggins could be traded for grant. i still maintain their value is similar. one is in an advantageous situation, the other isn't.

the allstar argument was about a nominal claim to superiority. and wiggins's allstar bid is certainly nominal more than substantive (i.e., this is perennial top 25 nba player) as was its intended use in the argument as i saw it.