2022-23 Team Developments: News / Trades / Free Agents / Rumors

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by BangBoomPow, Jun 3, 2021.

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  1. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Simmons has shown me zero desire to improve his weaknesses year after year. Players of his class and just before and after have taken huge leaps and he’s stood still. Just naming our former guys who have improved shooting and all around game, Ingram, Randle, Zo. That alone scares me off, I don’t see a killer instinct there for lack of a better term, I don’t see a drive to take that next step, instead he’s shrunk back. He shot 25/73 on free throws this playoffs.. %34.. I just don’t want that sort of mentally blocked or massive improvement needed player here. He is young, he may improve, but no thanks to it being here, unless the price is so low for him that it’s impossible to pass on.
     
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  2. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    our guys, save randle, have never been to the playoffs. lonzo shot 42% and 45% FTs with us. ingram shot sub-60 until he was traded.

    simmons has been an allstar 3 times, all nba once, and all defense twice. he's won three rounds in the playoffs as a team's second-best player, and advanced in the playoffs in three of his four years in the league. he was a 65% ft shooter in the playoffs before this year, and his general ft shooting has been lonzo/ingram ish overall (until both those guys left and suddenly shot better).

    i'm making a couple points: first, i think people are overreacting to a pretty odd/bad stretch from him. even doc kinda throwing him under the bus, which is so doc rivers. it's a small sample, who knows what governed it. i shudder to think what lonzo might have done with us had we made the playoffs with him here. second, all our guys got better when moved into a different situation. i'm guessing if philly moves him, things will improve for him. and this is the second time philly's number 1 draft pick succumbed to some weird mental issue. if i'm the lakers or sixers management, i'm asking myself: why us and not other teams. there's got to be something. and it could be as simple as media pressure due to large, visible markets. but it could also be something internal or related to how these teams are built and managed.

    i'm not ben simmons's biggest fan or anything, but i think his shooting issues a) will improve and b) are more than offset by all the things he does well. he's not an ideal fit for our roster, but we don't have the trade ammo to get him anyway.
     
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  3. The Rock

    The Rock - Lakers Starter -

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    Simmons would be perfect on a team like the Warriors that can have 3 shooters and scorers on the floor. He needs a team that would cover big time for his shortcomings as his strengths are maximized (rebounding, distribution and defending). He won't be a good fit with us. The way I look at him is he's basically Draymond with no confidence in looking to take a J. But he can be an effective scorer taking it to the hole on a fastbreak.

    He also needs to go to a small town team away from the big lights for a couple of years and rebuild his game a la Lonzo
     
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  4. pika1708

    pika1708 - Lakers Starter -

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    The thing is: Ben was a bad fit with Embiid prior to this playoffs. It was always an issue. He is a non-factor in half court. He would be even worse if is not handling the ball.

    I'm sure he will develop and improve his overall shooting. He may benefit by going to a different team who doesn't have this pressure of Championship or bust like Philly and LA. It worked with the guys you mention. But a contender cannot gamble on it. Specially a contender with LeBron who handles the ball and need space near to basket to penetrate at ease. So Ben would not benefit at all LeBron's game. LeBron is a multiple-Champion by being surrounded by shooters, why invent the wheel now at the age of 38? Even if he is adjusting his game, he will always be a driver to the basket who demands attention that will free up a colleague to shoot alone.

    There can be an argue of AD/Ben pairing at the 5/4 but that can be an experiment after LeBron leaves.
    Now is just a bad move that doesn't make the team better, doesn't answer team's needs and that will remove any flexibility on the rest of the roster.

    Time and time again it has been proved that role players are key to win a championship. From Iggy, to Ibaka and Van Vleet, to Caruso and KCP, to Bruce Brown and Green, regardless of the star power, tight playoff series are decided by the next guy. So I prefer to build the squad around LeBron/AD with the likes of KCP, Caruso and some guy replacing Kuz
     
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  5. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    I think Ben can shoot better but the way he passed up dunks/lay ups is concerning.

    I think he'd benefit from being around a guy like LeBron but I don't like his fit here at all right now.
     
  6. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    I mean, how would you feel about Schroder if he shot 40% from 3? How would you feel about Montrez Harrell if he grew 3 inches? How would you feel about _____ if he did something he hasn't shown he can do?
     
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  7. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

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    I actually like Simmons more than most. Probably because I really value defense. I think you can build a very good team around him. Just not here. His skills are redundant next to LeBron. They both need the ball in their hands. Two of those types don’t mesh well. It’s also why bringing in Westbrook is a no go for me.

    It was stated above. We already know the formula for a LeBron championship. Surround him and AD with intelligent role players that can shoot and D up. No need to reinvent the wheel.
     
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  8. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    I wouldn't focus so much on Schroder's 3 point percentage, that doesn't really mean much to me, it's more important that he can hit the big shot when it's needed. IE Lebron or AD probably shoot a lower percentage than say Caruso or KCP from three, but I would trust those two guys more to hit that big three when we need it. Back on topic with Simmons..what I see is a kid with a lot of talent and a particular skill set that is rare and extremely important in today's game. The ability to play perimeter one on one defense at an elite level. You can't teach size, instincts and athletic ability. His major issue for me is his free throw shooting, not his outside shot. He avg 16 pts a game for his career, that shows me that he can score. The 60 percent from the FT line is a problem, especially for a guard. He lost his confidence in his ability to hit his free throws, not surprising since he only shot 60% in the first place. That can be worked on and improved IMO. His defense made an impact in that game 7 even though he had zero confidence in his free throw shooting. I thought Doc's coaching lost that series, not Ben Simmons, but he didn't do everything he should have in order to help his team win by staying aggressive. A new environment, better leaders and coaching staff could do wonders for that kid, I think we have all that on the Lakers. He has to put in the work, but it's not some given that he wont. Lonzo was a terrible FT shooter here too, he has improved and that upped his game. Simmons can do the same.
     
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  9. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    The formula with Lebron is simply surround him with talent. Kyrie and D wade were both ball dominant, that is not really an issue, Lebron adapts to the guys he plays with. He never had a big as skilled as AD, yet he had zero problems getting the best of of Anthony. James is a leader, he is not a selfish player, he is more like Magic than Kobe or Jordan, and that's fine with me. I think Lebron James can play with any elite talent and make it work, that is what makes him special IMO. The media likes to pin narratives on people, "This guy needs this" "This guy is best if he plays like that" "This guy can't do that" thats what they do, go for the simple explanations. It doesn't mean that is always the correct observation either, James is an example of this IMO.
     
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  10. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    Simmons, James, AD, and take your pick on the other two. That's a championship caliber trio. Elite perimeter defender, elite interior defender and an elite leader with one of the highest basketball IQ's in the history of the game.
     
  11. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    That was one game, one series, Lebron James and Anthony Davis don't play for Philadelphia either. Magic blew a series, so did Zeke, that didn't define their careers.
     
  12. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    So basically Phily was only good soley because of Joel? Any other guy could have replaced Simmons and they would have been just as successful?
     
  13. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    While we are chopping up hoops, let me say that I like the idea of Westbrook too! More than CP3.
     
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  14. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    he's basically been a 60% ft shooter, though, so 75% isn't some impossible dream. and honestly, he was fine at 60. it was the 34% in the playoffs that hurt. and yes, the passing up of layups. but that all says to me that it's mental. it's a case of the yips. and we've seen guys pull out of the yips. we've also seen the opposite, though, i guess.
     
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  15. BangBoomPow

    BangBoomPow - Lakers Starter -

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    Hell no. CP3 might not put up bizarre numbers but he is infinitely better than Westbrook at being a leader and playing effective basketball.
     
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  16. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    I don't know about the 2021 thing, a lot of guys got hurt this year, that changed the dynamics. Sure if we were healthy, we would be the favorites to win it this year. If everybody else was healthy too? I don't consider it a given at all. You keep goin on about his jumper, but it was the FT shooting that hurt his performance in that series. The lack of confidence in it specifically. If he hit his FT, he wouldn't have chosen not to attack the basket and we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. The last part is easy...Put Simmons on Booker, George, Dame, Mitchell, back upped by AD on the interior? We would impact every team's ability to score in a series. That's what great defensive players do, ala the Bulls, Pistons.. it wasn't all about Jordan's ability to score, definitely not Zeke and the crew either, they locked folks down on defense, defense can create offense.
     
  17. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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  18. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    We have a leader already, who can lead better than Lebron? Russ would be a nightmare on this team, look at him in Washington. Playing with Lebron and AD, who do you play straight up? You can't double all three, SMH...Westbrook would destroy people on this team. That guy goes hard, all the time and he is durable. What second unit would want to see that guy coming at them? A three headed monster that you could stagger minutes, so that at least one is on the floor every minute of a game? Paul is injury prone, he is more likely to be on the sidelines than finishing a championship run.
     
  19. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers All Star -

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    That's going to change some guys games for sure.
     
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  20. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    Harden will now be a 12 ppg scorer.
     
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