2015 Nba Draft Discussion: Russell, Nance Jr., Brown

I'm surprised somebody brought up the post this late in the discussion. I thought it was going to be after game 2. Lee did help them immensely, though. The post is still very effective. It just depends how you go about using it to your advantage. There are a couple of different ways to generate very good post-up opportunities. We look no further than Pop who has integrated a modern offense and still utilized Timmy in the post area.

 

Randle has a post-game, too.

 

Not to the extent of Okafor, but it's effective.

 

So much for the 'modern' game

'Traditional big men aren't as valuable as they once were.' Yeah right.

 

Phil Jackson must be laughing his a** off right now.

 

Pop has done the best job of anybody integrating modern principles while still utilizing Tim in the post. The difference is they just don't go down the court, throw it into the teeth of a defense, and expect to get a shot. The way they used it last year against the Heat in the Finals and in other instances was has a secondary action. You have to be more creative designing sets. Nevertheless with Randle and Okafor, we have two legit face-up back to the basket centers that we can utilize in various ways...

 

I just feel they play the right way. When did the NBA's offense advance so rapidly beyond our understanding? Modern principles may get you regular season wins but when things get tough, you get beat by a Lebron-usage-rate-42% offense.

Last time I checked, the Lakers and Spurs have reached the Finals 13 out of 15 times since the new millenium, which means a dominant post presence is still essential in the playoffs, unless you have Lebron who can single-handily take over.

 

Who said NBA offenses advanced so rapidly beyond our understanding? It hasn't. I wouldn't even say you have to have a dominant post presence. It just has to be efficient. Although, a dominant post presence is very nice to have, but I don't think necessary.

 

Didn't mean to attack you in any way, but I'm so sick of the media overhyping trends like 'stretch 4s' and 'perimeter-dominated league' which are both false.

The only time a team with a stretch 4 (as their best player) won a chip (in the history of our league) is in 2011 with Dirk. And the only times perimeter-oriented offenses won a chip were when the teams were led by GOAT players with HOF sidekicks like Jordan/Pippen and Lebron/Wade/Bosh. So in those rare cases, supreme talent (Dirk's performance was ridiculous that year) won championships.

History has proven, since 1991, that there's really only 2 ways to win a chip. Get a dominant big (Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, KG, Pau+Bynum) or get a GOAT-level talent (MJ, Kobe, Lebron) and build around them. Only exception is the 2004 Piston team.

I don't see how anyone can argue against that. Even excluding the 2004 Pistons and 2011 Mavs teams, this obvious formula holds 91.6% true since 1991.

 

I'm not arguing. I want an established post presence. I welcome Okafor with open arms and his post game. I don't think we need a 'dominant' post big though to win a rings in today's league.

I actually think you can make a great argument for an Okafor/Randle combination under the premise that this is the next step in basketball's evolution. There is no inherent advantage to "going small." What's you're trying to do is increase the foot speed and skill level of your team. An underrated part of Okafor's game is his ability to handle the ball and drive to the basket from the perimeter. Randle already has this in spades. Offensively, you're getting most of the benefit of actually going small, without losing size. If one of them (probably Randle) can become an adequate shooter, we'd be in business. They both have some Lamar Odom in their game.

IMO, that's the way you exploit this style of play, in terms of personnel. With bigs that possess ball handling skills and speed/agility. Otherwise you end up like Memphis, unable to exploit Draymond Green defending Marc Gasol & Harrison Barnes defending Zach Randolph.

By the way, Pop is actually one of the best arguments against slow it down and post up. He admits that's what he prefers, and admits he hates space and pace ball. But he also says he does it because that's how you win in the current rules environment. Pop admits his bias, and then chucks it for something the empirical evidence tells him is the right thing to do.

I'm not against post-play. I don't meant to come across that way.

 

Great post, I agree with everything you said.

With the Kobe era ending, we are in a ridiculously lucky position of drafting Okafor who can put us right back into the 91.6% winning formula. The way I see it, Okafor and Anthony Davis are the centerpieces that no other team possesses.

 

I don't disagree. Stretch 4's are valuable. I'm just saying they are overvalued. Except for Dirk, all the players you listed are 3rd best or worse players on their respective teams. In other words, an offense led by a stretch 4 needs a prolific shooter like a 2011 Dirk to win a title. Also, don't forget that you lose a valuable offensive rebounder with your stretch 4 roaming out in the perimeter.

Even in this year's draft you see the trends getting overblown by the media.

Misconception #1 Towns' offense is somehow equal to Okafor because of his ability to stretch the floor.

As I mentioned, stretch 4's are most valuable as role players; not your franchise player, and definitely not your best rebounder. Please don't get me started on this.

Misconception #2 Russell may be considered a better prospect than the 2 bigs because of the way 'today's game' is played.

How is Russell's ceiling faring in the Finals with 'today's game'?

 

I pity the Wolves, having no one to go to Minny to work out. Everybody who is anybody is in LA.

 

It must be a bad feeling knowing that both Towns and Okafor really don't want to play for you lol