Was thinking the same thing. Philly wants/needs Russell. We pry a second rounder out of them AND get Okafor.
You and I occasionally see things from different perspectives. This is one of those times. No WAY Bogut and / or Mosgov is better than Frank. Better at standing in the paint and taking up space? Ok, you got me. Neither one is anything more than a glorified space eater. Frank is smarter, quicker, MUCH better shooter, better passer, and has a MUCH higher BBIQ, a better motor and is more durable than either of them. If you offered me my choice of the three right now I take Frank without hesitation.
Yeah we're not gonna agree on this one man. Bogut is bigger, just as good a passer (although he makes poor decisions at times), and is a great fit for the Warriors' system. He's more skilled, a LOT more athletic, bigger, and is a much much better defender than what Kaminsky will be at the next level. Mozgov I can see your argument a lot better even though he's a little better than people give him credit for. If you replaced either of them with Kaminsky right now though their teams would get worse.
I think Kaminsky falls in the Pau Gasol/Dirk category, more than a Bogut/Mozgov do. Apples and oranges here in terms of skills. Kaminsky will be an offensive 4/5. He's a much better shooter than those two, a more polished back to the basket game, and he can handle the ball. He's not going to take up the space and doesn't have the defensive instincts those other guys do because those other guys don't have that offensive game, but he'll still do his fair share of defending. Honestly, Mozgov is a filler center. I think Kaminsky would succeed next to Lebron/Kyrie/Tristan. Golden State needs an inside presence because they lack size, and that's what Bogut brings for them. That's not to say, he couldn't start with them either. He could easily be a stretch 4 with them. Curry/Thompson/Green/Kaminsky/Bogut would still work too.
whoa, where to start? 1. dirk can't. his team is at home in large part because the second-best coach in the nba couldn't find a way to hide him against some pretty mediocre pfs. 2. if you're talking young dirk, I'm almost angry. kaminsky is not dirk. they don't belong in the same sentence. it's just...ridiculous. again, just pleased as punch the lakers aren't drafting low enough to worry about whether kaminsky really is the great white hope. let Utah worry about it.
I was recently asked to evaluate an online analytics tool and I thought of using NBA statistics on it and here's what it came up with: Based on the results, the home team has historically won when they have at more than 26 assists, more than 6 blocks, more than 27 free throw attempts, and so on, in a game. Like what RandleROFY said, this is a simply a tool that an NBA team might use for analytics, so based on the said results, one would probaby acquire both Steve Nash for assists and Dwight Howard for blocks and Hack-A-Dwight FT attempts just like what the Lakers did a few years ago. But then again, also like what RandleROFY said, this is not be all and end all stuff... having this much data is as important as using them to make proper decisions wisely, and not all basketball statistics and intangibles were considered here.
Dribble Factor OKAFOR: 1.38 POINTS PER SHOT, 38.3 CONTEST+ FG%, -5.4 DRIBBLE FACTOR TOWNS: 1.87 POINTS PER SHOT, 44.4 CONTEST+ FG%, +6.2 DRIBBLE FACTOR Turnovers OKAFOR: 10.24 TURNOVERS PER 100 TOUCHES TOWNS: 5.87 TURNOVERS PER 100 TOUCHES Assists OKAFOR: 3.38 ASSIST+ PER 100 CHANCES TOWNS: 4.24 ASSIST+ PER 100 CHANCES Blocks OKAFOR: 0.92 POINTS AGAINST PER SHOT, 42.0 OVERALL FG% AGAINST, 2.07 BLOCKS PER 100 CHANCES TOWNS: 0.74 POINTS AGAINST PER SHOT, 33.2 OVERALL FG% AGAINST, 4.05 BLOCKS PER 100 CHANCES Effective Help Rate OKAFOR: 6.1 POINTS ALLOWED PER 100 HELPS, 30.6 EFFECTIVE HELP RATE TOWNS: 16.7 POINTS ALLOWED PER 100 HELPS, 19.4 EFFECTIVE HELP RATE Summary -Towns was a better finisher than Okafor on contested shots, by a good degree. -Okafor was a much better catch & finish guy than Towns. -Towns shot 61.1% when taking 1 dribble, whereas Okafor was at 45.2% in the same situation. -Towns is a much better passer. -Okafor's defensive numbers are better than I thought they'd be, but Towns' are ridiculous, with the ability to defend on the perimeter being the main distinction. -When Okafor helps on the interior, he's really good at it. Better than Towns. http://www.vantagesports.com/story/VWAbmiYAAMkY3uq0/vantage-scouting-report-okafor-vs.-towns
My god, I'm switching to Towns Ok not really but I'm at peace on whoever we get between the 2 bigs. Excellent year to suck I tell you. Didn't enjoy it but this reward is well worth it.
Yeah, I've posted the metrics. I think their more in favor of Towns; obviously, you'll get some people that say 'well from my eye-test this is what I seen,' and that's fine. Although, some people have a better knack for scouting than others; so, for me personally, unless I absolutely trust the person scouting, I won't believe their 'eye-test;' Chad Ford is an example of this; sometimes, though, even the best get it wrong. In this particular scenario, though, I don't think we could go wrong. Either big will make a big difference for us next year.
I'm beginning to appreciate these metrics and its swaying my preferences nearing D-day. Great work, buddy.
No problem, man. I don't want to sway anybody; I've also posted stuff of Jahlil and add commentary and or videos of him throughout this thread. It's good to be informed as possible about who, what, and why we're drafting this particular person. Either way, I'm excited about both of these guys for various/different reasons.
Huge problem with those numbers: responsibility and minutes played. Towns wasn't HALF as responsible for offense as Okafor was. If you'd put Towns in Okafor's position, his efficiency would have absolutely taken a dive both in passing and in scoring. Okafor was scoring over double and triple teams at times. Towns was being played straight up nearly every possession. Teams were daring him to win scoring the ball. Now credit where it's due: Towns won those battles sometimes, but NOBODY was daring Okafor to beat them offensively. Okafor had more turnovers because he had the ball more often in a "decision position". He was asked to be their sole creator and he did it most nights to the tune of National Championship. Karl also barely played compared to Jahlil. Towns played one more game and 300 less minutes than Okafor. Add 300 minutes to Towns' numbers and I'm sure they'd look less efficient. I know we're going to dissect these guys over the coming month and Towns certainly has some advantages over Okafor, but I'm not a fan of those particular numbers.
@therealdeal also the assist numbers are deceptive. Okafor has good vision, is a good decision maker, and can find his man out of the post or from the top of the key. When I first started watching him, that was one aspect of his offense I was equally surprised and impressed with. Towns' passing game isn't on par with Okafor's.
Did you lose track of the context here? You're claiming that Frank does not "belong in the same sentence" as Dirk defensively, and that it is so ridiculous you are almost angry. The comparison was not to Dirk on the offensive end. Dirk has always been a horrible defender. Real claimed he would not be able to guard any NBA 4s or 5s. My counterpoint was that if Dirk can, Frank can. The point is simply that his strengths will outweigh his weaknesses. Frank will help his NBA team more than he will hurt them. But, that's not to say that I think Kaminsky is as bad on D as Dirk. He's not. Did you watch the Badger's run in March Madness? Did you watch Frank defend Okafor? He is not a game changing defender, but he was solid and smart on D and his effort was consistent and his rotations were there.
I like Towns' passing on the perimeter more than Okafor's. Towns has kind of a Noah-esque passing ability from 16 feet and out. Okafor is a better post passer though for sure. He's just got the feel for it down. He knows when and where the doubles are and where his teammates should be.
Ugh...the ONLY reason I threw out the DIrk comparison is because of his role. Frank WILL be a stretch 4. Also, he's not going to be a defensive player, neither was Dirk. That's where the comparisons end. However, you can't discount Frank for what he did in Wisconsin leading his team through a successful NCAA season and tournament. He's a 7 FOOTER with a lot of skills offensively and a high bbiq. He's got a back to the basket game, he can shoot, and he can put the ball on the floor. How many current NBA bigs can say they can do that? Not many. I'm not saying he'll be a superstar, but he's going to be good NBA player that everyone doubts he'll be.
@therealdeal Okafor's ability to find his man under constant pressure without racking up heavy TO numbers impressed me. Whether he was double teamed, swarmed by the entire visiting team including the mascot and marching band, he could make the right pass. Cool as a cucumber whether he was trapped under the basket with the ball or 20+ feet out as they tried pinning him down in the corner, still knew what to do and where to look. Towns hasn't faced that kind of heat. Both will play a role in their transition at the next level, even if only to a small degree.
