^ @therealdeal how many perfect offseasons have you come up with this far? Hehe I'm joking. In all honesty, that one does look REALLY good.
Oh dear, no. Max deal on Carroll? Signing him is scary enough when you consider he's 28 and been on 5 teams. Now he plays out of his mind in a contract year (and all of a sudden excels at something that is mostly effort - defense). I'd be OK signing Carroll, but for no more than 8 million. We already have 5.2 million wrapped up in the sf slot with Swaggy. If 8 million can't get it done, we'll fill the spot later. I'd rather strike out completely this offseason than end up owing Carroll 1/5th of our team cap room, and that 1/5th number is based on the cap AFTER the spike. And you think taking a 2 million dollar, two-year chance on a rookie with top 10 talent is a big risk? Max deal to a contract year journeyman small forward?
Max at Carroll? No way. If Kawhi, Butler, & Middleton are out of reach & we didn't draft a SF, I pick up a solid backup for Young & spend at other positions. Or even go the Lin route, assuming LMA leaves, Portland would probably be willing to give up a future pick for us to take on the 1 year remaining on Batum's contract.
Did you guys actually read it? I don't want to give him the max. I said we can go UP TO a max contract to Carroll if need be, but it won't need to happen. I've said REPEATEDLY 4/50 million is more than enough to get the job done. that's 12.5 million which is probably more than anyone else is willing to offer and obviously it's only if we're already set at Center through the draft. Even then, it leaves us with over 10 million to spend elsewhere.I said it's something we could do and honestly you guys can be so picky. He's 28 years old and that's a red flag? That's his player prime. This is the best he's going to be as a player for his career and we'd be getting him then. You're only going to offer 8 million to Carroll, but a max contract worth more than twice that to Middleton? Doesn't make sense to me. And a backup for Young? Young IS the backup. I'd rather overpay for Carroll than pay for Lin and settle for Wes Johnson again at SF. No thanks. Also Batum is even worse than Carroll and is owed nearly 12 million next season. Why get him when we could get Carroll? I'd rather have Carroll.
I'm with @therealdeal Butler/Kawhi are pipe. They are borderline franchise-type players. They will get max contracts from their respectable teams. I'm down with either Middleton or Carroll, and would pay 12+ million without hesitation if that's what it took. We are more desperate to fill that SF need than any other team in the league, so overpaying slightly can be tolerated.
man, my demarre carroll dream looked totally realistic until the playoffs started. dammit. I would have offered 8 per even if he stunk it up in the playoffs.
I did read it. You said we can offer something similar to the 16-17 Butler would get, so I took that as you being willing to do it. The red flag isn't that he's 28. 8 seasons, 5 teams. He only started playing well last season. He was having trouble getting off the bench in Utah. His age isn't the red flag. It's his age in relation to when he started playing well. Last season he put up OK stats on a mediocre team. He put up slightly better stats this season in a contract year, and in a system. It's the same problem I have with Danny Green. Good stats, but in a system that has shown a history of "plug 'n play" results. You act like I don't like the guy...or anyone else. I'm just weary of players who break through in their late 20's. That's the difference with Middleton, Tobias Harris, and the untouchables like Butler and Leonard. Harris has been playing well for the last 3 seasons and he started playing that way when he was 20. So I like Carroll. My red flag isn't that he's 28. It's that he's in a contract year, and he's in a system. I just feel like the interest he gets on this board is that he's unrestricted. If all the sfs were unrestricted, he'd be like our 5th choice. I just don't think wrapping up big money in a good, but not great player is the smart way to go. Yes, the cap is jumping. But you still have to be smart. My comment about Young wasn't that he would start, it's just that we would have 17-20 million wrapped up in the sf position and we wouldn't even have a star player there. Two role players in the same position taking up 20 million? 87 million is a big cap number, but it's not infinite. That's all I'm saying.
12.5 million a year for what would eventually be our glue guy is what I'm thinking. Odom cost us what 8 million or something when he kept our team glued together? That's what Carroll can bring us. With the cap extending, you go get guys like that who are solid pieces that just need a leader to plug in and step up. If you're worried about 12.5 million for Carroll who is a known quantity at this point for all the reasons you point out, then shouldn't you be just as worried about paying even more for a kid who has proven even less in the league. You point out that Carroll had trouble getting off the bench well Middleton played off the bench in Detroit when they started Singler over him. Now he's putting up comparable numbers to Carroll on a much, much worse team. If Milwaukee wasn't in the East they wouldn't sniff the playoffs. And YES he's at the top of my list because he's unrestricted. I don't see a problem with that at all. Before him I'd take Kawhi, Butler, Green, and maybe Middleton, but those guys aren't available so why waste my time? Carroll isn't as good as those players, but we're not going to pay him as much as it'd take to get any of those other players. Why waste time on an RFA when we can get a player who can approximate their value for less without having to worry if he can be matched? I'm not against the RFAs. If it's possible to get one of them (particularly Butler or Leonard) then I go for it and I don't ask questions. That shouldn't mean there's a big problem with signing Carroll because he's 28 and bounced around the league a bit. If I follow through with the plan I like the most (assuming we get a big in the draft) our salary going into the 2016 summer is: Carroll- 12.5 Young- 5.4 Top 5 pick ~ 5 Williams- 5 Davis- 5 Randle- 3.3 Ellington- 2 #27 pick- 1.3 #34 pick- .9 Total- 40.4 million. Say the Cap is 87 million, that'd leave us at least 42.6 million to spend (assuming the minimum salary doubles with the new Cap). A max contract to Durant starts at around 30 million dollars. That leaves us 12 million to bring back Clarkson and re-sign Black if we want to keep him around. We'd have PLENTY of cash. Cash wouldn't even be a concern. Also I'm pretty sure we could extend a qualifying offers to both Clarkson AND Black which would still leave us probably 8-9 million to spend AFTER Durant while letting us keep both Clarkson and Black if we so chose. Heck you could bring back Kobe for that much on a one-year deal to help keep the fire lit while the team gets acclimated. Clarkson/Williams Kobe/Young Durant/Carroll/Anderson Randle/Black Towns/Davis/Johnson
I get it. It's just the age in relation to breakout that makes me nervous. That's the difference between him and Middleton. The problem with the above team is we would need one of either Randle or Towns to become borderline superstars to actually win a ring, IMO. Durant being the only go-to guy on the roster makes it tough. (I don't count Kobe now anymore, let alone another year older). Also, with the above team you have 42 million invested in two players at the same position, one of which is probably not going to get a whole lot of playing time (Carroll) if he's behind the second best player in the league. Granted, like I have said before, I don't see us being players for Durant for a variety of reasons. I totally understand where you're coming from, I just feel like Carroll for big money feels like a mid-market team overpaying for good players because they can't get great players to come. If we sign Carroll for 8 million, I'll be happy. If we sign him for 10, I won't be upset. If we start getting into the 12 to teens price tag, we are getting hosed and we are spending money for the sake of spending money. W will have to agree to disagree. No biggie.
The team I used as an example has Kobe for one season in which case you slide Carroll up into the SG spot after Kobe retires and then you have the money split more reasonably, but who cares about that really? That team is well-balanced and as long as they click I couldn't care less where the money is spent. In fact in that scenario we're looking at a strong starting unit AND a good bench. Who cares if Carroll is making 12.5 million? It's an arbitrary distinction if the team is good. I'm not sure the hang up on the dollars and cents here. I'm not spending money to spend money. I'm spending money to fill a position of need. If anything I think spending 15.8 million or whatever it would cost to get to Middleton is spending money just to spend money. He's 24 sure, but that's 4 million MORE than the amount you're willing to spend on Carroll? That doesn't make sense to me. In fact in getting Middleton you're keeping this team REALLY young which sets us up as one of those teams that keeps floating around being decent. Don't we need some veteran leadership in here? If/when Kobe breaks down again you're looking at a bunch of kids to try to lead us to the promise land. One of my favorite scenarios is if we land in the Top 3 and end up with either Towns, Okafor, or Mudiay (aka a player capable of being a star) and then using our 24 million in cap space to get Carroll and Asik (or if we draft a big, then instead of Asik we get Williams/Davis). Then we have a solid mix of veterans and youth. As much as it sounds great to have a bunch of young cats all developing together, that kind of rebuild will take years to grab hold. They might not make the playoffs for 2-3 more years. That's simply unacceptable to me.
Scott prefers Kobe play the 3 and has said so on a few other occasions; I think he implements that plan in Kobe's final season. I think Clarkson will play both the 1 and 2 next year interchanging like he did some when Lin was playing with him; I actually liked that concept and the way it worked from a basketball standpoint. They'll go after more wing depth, but I think the goal is finding a legit 7'foot big man, a couple of solid swingmen, and Kobe/Young holding down the 3 spot until the Lakers make their push for Durant in 2016. We might even see Wes back in a reserve role playing some of those minutes...
Wes?! Please no! He and Lin need to ride off into the sunset together and never ever put on a Lakers jersey again. Not in public, not in an arena, hell...not in the privacy of their own homes.
@Savory Griddles Why does Carroll being a late bloomer make you nervous? Some players peak early, some late. Steve Nash, Tiago Splitter, Ben Wallace, Chauncy Billups, Gerald Wallace are some examples of players that found success late in their 20s.
Blooming late wouldn't bother me if he was in year 2 of a 5 year deal. Season before his last contract? That's what scares me. Luke Walton, Devean George, Sasha are three guys on the Lakers alone that played big in contract years and we were counting the days until they were off the roster.
Possibly. Specifically, we know we need to upgrade the 3; I could see Kobe/Young taking most of their minutes at the 3 and Wes coming off the bench; he'll be cheap, he's serviceable in very small periods of time, can start in a pinch if somebody is injured, etc. Bare in mind, I'm not advocating it. Nevertheless, I don't think we're we'll give anybody a max-contract at that position until KD is a free agent. So, we have to think of ways of upgrading with players under contract for a bargain or we draft Winslow.
I think if draft Mudiay, there is a chance Wes is back because that would shift Kobe to the 3, Clarkson to the 2 and Mudiay at the one. I guess I'm OK with Wes on the roster if we sign another sf so he's our 4 option at the 3. Kobe/Young/?/Wes
I don't see Scott starting our top 5 prospect right away. Scott will make then earn it, and given the learning curve, it will take time to adjust to the NBA. The only exception to that rule is Okafor; even then, Scott will have reservations because of his lack of defense, but he'll be tearing into him every time he misses an assignment/rotation or is just flat out too lazy to give 100% on that end...actually, that's what Okafor may need to improve on that end to keep him focused. Either way, he's the most NBA-Ready; can start from the jump...
I don't those ex-Lakers are comparable because Carroll had almost identical stats last year, suggesting gradual and honest improvement, ie not a typical case of a 'contract year'
