Moritz Wagner Discussion: Mo Knows Treys

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by therealdeal, Jun 21, 2018.

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  1. SFGOLDRUSHER

    SFGOLDRUSHER - Lakers Starter -

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    This was emphasized by Rob after the draft - the passing element of Wagner's game. Thinking we can utilize him in different ways; at the top of the key without having to depend on high pick in roll possession after possession...[/QUOTE]

    I'm in love with his shooting and drive ability along with footwork to go with it.. Even Brook had some slow mo sneaky footwork to get a solid look haha.
     
    SFGOLDRUSHER, Jun 23, 2018
    #121
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  2. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    early hot takes are panning the lakers for taking wagner and celebrating the C Bags for taking williams. this will be an interesting one to watch over the years.
     
    abeer3, Jun 23, 2018
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  3. KB24

    KB24 Administrator Staff Member

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    The Lakers have earned the benefit of the doubt at this point.

    I think realistically, a guy in the range of 25-30 isn't going to have a long career in the NBA. So anything is a plus usually.

    I saw a stat the other day...guys getting picked in the 12-14 range....over the years have averaged less than 8 ppg in the NBA during their careers. Only a handful of prospects selected here have ended up averaging double-figure scoring for their careers, (the most famous guys: TJ Warren, Marcus Morris and Troy Murphy) over the past 30-plus years. In other words...a 14th pick is also pretty worthless usually.

    Guys that come from the G League (undrafted) have averaged like 5 ppg in the NBA over their career....Exception proves the rule. But it shows you how valuable usually a guy in that spot ends up being.

    What I want to say is that the draft (any draft for that matter) is usually overrated. Every draft produces between 0-2 all-stars and a bunch of rotation players. Out of 60 players, usually 45-50 end up being worthless. But you read the scouting reports and comparisons, you believe there are 15 HOF in every draft.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
    KB24, Jun 23, 2018
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  4. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    it's amazing how little nba gms seem to understand these facts. the trade value of first round picks is sky high, but their long-term expected value is low unless they're top 5. you're often going to be better off with the MLE.
     
    abeer3, Jun 23, 2018
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  5. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    It’s why so many teams used to trade their draft picks away, and why there’s a rule you can’t trade your first rounder in successive years. Winning teams are ok with you proving your value first vs developing.

    CBA changed many things, and now and now 1st round picks are valued for their talent level and low cost that is controlled for many years.
     
    sirronstuff, Jun 23, 2018
    #125
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  6. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm out of town this weekend, but I'm trying to come up with a breakdown on areas to improve.

    Things that jump out immediately:

    • Needs to improve his leg and core strength
    • Has almost no feel for rim protection at all
    • Plays defense a step slow, stands too upright
    • Can lose focus defensively
    It's not like he can't be more effective, but he just has no feel at all for rim protection. Where Wagner is surprisingly agile, his vertical and length are just average. He reminds me a little bit of Kuzma defensively: capable of being more, but just isnt for some reason. That'll be his biggest learning curve.

    On the other hand athletically Wagner has some surprising agility.

    Wagner had a better lane agility time than De'Anthony Melton and Troy Brown.

    Wagner's shuttle run was faster than Jacob Evans, Trevon Duval, Donte DiVicenzo, and Hamidou Diallo.

    Wagner's 3/4 sprint was tied with Trevon Duval, Jevon Carter, and Khyri Thomas.

    He's 6'10.5" without his shoes and 6'11.5" with them. He has just terrific agility for a man his size. Truly remarkable.
     
    therealdeal, Jun 23, 2018
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  7. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    This was emphasized by Rob after the draft - the passing element of Wagner's game. Thinking we can utilize him in different ways; at the top of the key without having to depend on high pick in roll possession after possession...[/QUOTE]

    Love having to not see that every time down the floor. I'm like ...

    :Lonzoreally:
     
    LTLakerFan, Jun 23, 2018
    #127
  8. Big Mamma Jamma

    Big Mamma Jamma - Rookie -

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    Real, the good thing is much of that stuff can be fixed to a certain extent. It’s amazing to me how nowadays certain skills just aren’t taught especially on the AAU level... shooting, angles, etc. You’re right about him playing too upright on defense.

    With good coaching some of his perceived deficiencies can become solid skills. After watching videos of him I was surprised that he wasn’t better defensively. It’s not like he is some slow footed plodder...
     
    Big Mamma Jamma, Jun 23, 2018
    #128
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  9. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    That 25-30 range you first mention juxtaposed with the hard realities of much higher 10-14 picks should have Lakers fans slack jawed in awe of the Lakers highly tuned scouting system, philosophy and personnel in the grind of executing the process. Just last year and this .... Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and now Mo Wagner ... just wow. That secret formula they have for the physical attributes, skills and cultural mix they're searching for is some serious IP for the organization.

    :FistPump:
     
    LTLakerFan, Jun 23, 2018
    #129
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  10. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed 100%. I believe he can be a completely competent defender in the NBA. He will never be a natural shot blocker, but he should be able to rotate effectively and possibly even switch on forwards.
     
    therealdeal, Jun 23, 2018
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  11. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    If Wagner does not have the natural feel for rim protection then he should stay at the 4. For a player lauded for his IQ that is surprising. Wagner's court vision in Walton's passing offense is where he will likely excel however.

    Upon hearing his name called, first inclination was we have Randle's replacement or back-up. Either or.
     
    gcclaker, Jun 23, 2018
    #131
  12. Purp n Gold

    Purp n Gold - Rookie -

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    This might sound random but possibly relevant if Wagner is to develop under us: Tom Thibobdau said once in an interview he would take an offensive player any day over a defensive one; he can teach defense. Said he can't teach offense, and not many coaches can according to him.
     
    Purp n Gold, Jun 23, 2018
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  13. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

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    We got alot of TRex now
     
    KareemtheGreat33, Jun 23, 2018
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  14. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    :Laugh: Welcome to the squad rookie

     
    sirronstuff, Jun 23, 2018
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  15. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    sirronstuff, Jun 23, 2018
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  16. LakerWolverine

    LakerWolverine - Rookie -

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    Mo took a team picked to finish fourth in the Big Ten to the NCAA championship game. He has skills that should fit in with what the Lakers want to do.
     
    LakerWolverine, Jun 23, 2018
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  17. Battle Tested20

    Battle Tested20 Moderator Staff Member

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    WOW!
     
    Battle Tested20, Jun 23, 2018
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  18. Battle Tested20

    Battle Tested20 Moderator Staff Member

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    Battle Tested20, Jun 23, 2018
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  19. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    You sound impartial. ;)
     
    therealdeal, Jun 23, 2018
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  20. Battle Tested20

    Battle Tested20 Moderator Staff Member

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    Battle Tested20, Jun 23, 2018
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